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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:57 am 
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Hi, I have been using MakeMKV (OSX 10.11.6) for the last week ripping "The Collection of Hayao Mizaki" and I am finding that EACH disc seems to have multiple copies of the same movie.

For example, Nausicaa has THREE different titles that are 25, 27, and 27.1GB respectively.

Looking at the playlist they all look IDENTICAL.

Playing all three back in VLC on OSX, they seem IDENTICAL (though for whatever reason, I am not seeing Japanese as an audio track despite the fact it is listed in the playlist).

I did search the forums and I know this topic has come up on and off (e.g. Mockingjay) but in those cases it seems there are differences. In my case, I don't see any, or should I say anything obvious.

I did notice that with Lupin III, there were two copies and one HAD credits while the other did not. That was the difference.

Any idea why this is like this?

Please see attachment.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:36 pm 
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I don't have the BD version of these movies, but... Movies distributed by Disney tend to NOT use playlist obfuscation. Their digital animation will have 3 copies, English, French, and Spanish, but that's it.

In the case of the Studio Ghibli titles, the differences are usually in which audio and subtitle tracks are included. There is a "theatrical release", which doesn't have commentary, and some films have TWO commentary tracks, with subtitles, for the director and voice actors. The video portion is usually the same, and both English and Japanese audio should be available in all versions. Occasionally there is a "director's cut" version, but I don't remember that being used much.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:07 pm 
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Woodstock wrote:
I don't have the BD version of these movies, but... Movies distributed by Disney tend to NOT use playlist obfuscation. Their digital animation will have 3 copies, English, French, and Spanish, but that's it.

In the case of the Studio Ghibli titles, the differences are usually in which audio and subtitle tracks are included. There is a "theatrical release", which doesn't have commentary, and some films have TWO commentary tracks, with subtitles, for the director and voice actors. The video portion is usually the same, and both English and Japanese audio should be available in all versions. Occasionally there is a "director's cut" version, but I don't remember that being used much.


That doesn't seem to be the case here.

For example with Nausicaa, two versions seem identical in run-time length and all audio tracks are available. The third version looks like it is truncated by 3 minutes (it begins in the middle of the movie).

I'm not sure what to make of all of this.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:23 pm 
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So maybe this is a makemkv bug with playlists? (I doubt it, but it does seem like there are duplicate tracks).


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:46 pm 
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pisymbol wrote:
So maybe this is a makemkv bug with playlists? (I doubt it, but it does seem like there are duplicate tracks).


It is not a bug. Most of the Studio Ghibli films that I've dealt with, whether by Disney or Universal, have had 2-3 movie playlists with the same runtime. One playlist is often the storyboard (complete movie but pencil sketched), which is the smallest file. The next 2 are nearly identical except the opening and end credits differ and are either in Japanese or English. In some cases, both the Japanese and English language audio tracks are available on both playlists, while other times Japanese language is only available with Japanese credits/English language with English credits.

Because each complete movie playlist is cobbled together from multiple segments of which each may have its own playlist, you could be finding the one in between the credits (ie, most of the main movie) which will have the shorter runtime. If you watch this MKV, you'll probably notice it abruptly starts after and ends before the credits.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:33 pm 
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yorgo wrote:
Because each complete movie playlist is cobbled together from multiple segments of which each may have its own playlist, you could be finding the one in between the credits (ie, most of the main movie) which will have the shorter runtime. If you watch this MKV, you'll probably notice it abruptly starts after and ends before the credits.

There should be zero play lists that only reference a M2TS segment that is not the complete movie.

On a M$ system, you can use BDEdit to look at all of the play lists.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:02 pm 
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MrVideo wrote:
yorgo wrote:
Because each complete movie playlist is cobbled together from multiple segments of which each may have its own playlist, you could be finding the one in between the credits (ie, most of the main movie) which will have the shorter runtime. If you watch this MKV, you'll probably notice it abruptly starts after and ends before the credits.

There should be zero play lists that only reference a M2TS segment that is not the complete movie.

On a M$ system, you can use BDEdit to look at all of the play lists.


Can't test now but I believe I am correct; with these discs, there is a playlist of a single M2TS segment, usually for each of the opening and end credits, and the movie without credits. Can report once verified.

Agreed, BDEdit works well. Can also be used to reference the individual M2TS segment, watch that segment via playback software, and then choose which playlist one prefers (Japanese or English credits). Or one can simply create MKVs of both playlists and then choose which one to keep, much easier.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:00 am 
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yorgo wrote:
Can't test now but I believe I am correct; with these discs, there is a playlist of a single M2TS segment, usually for each of the opening and end credits, and the movie without credits. Can report once verified.

I await your report. With BD authoring, a play list cannot reference another play list. But, when a play list is finished it can be told to go play another play list. When it comes to playing a movie with different M2TS files, a single play list will contain the required M2TS files. If this particular company is playing from one play list to another, it is silly.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:26 am 
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When I find a BR with diferentes editions of a movie, instead of MakeMKV I use the Xin1generator to create the diferentes tracks and mkvtoolnix to join them in one mkv file.

In this way I have in one mkv file the three diffetent editions on Avatar, or any Star Wars movie with the texts at the beginning both in English and Spanish, for example.

One started the movie, it is posible to select the diffetent editions to be played in a similar way than choosing the audio or subtitle in other movies.

This mkv feature is not compatible with some players, but with VLC or MPCHC works perfectly.

It would be great if MakeMKV would include this feature for both BR and DVDs, since Xin1generator only works with BR...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:22 am 
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MrVideo wrote:
yorgo wrote:
Can't test now but I believe I am correct; with these discs, there is a playlist of a single M2TS segment, usually for each of the opening and end credits, and the movie without credits. Can report once verified.

I await your report. With BD authoring, a play list cannot reference another play list. But, when a play list is finished it can be told to go play another play list. When it comes to playing a movie with different M2TS files, a single play list will contain the required M2TS files. If this particular company is playing from one play list to another, it is silly.


Tested WHEN MARNIE WAS THERE (Universal) and CASTLE IN THE SKY (Disney). In both cases using MakeMKV, the two largest and nearly identical in size tracks (within the first 6 tracks or so in the left DESCRIPTION column) are the English titled and dubbed and Japanese titled and dubbed versions of the movie respectively . These playlists use seemless branching and contain a number of "segment maps". One of those segments, smack in the middle of the map list, is the M2TS stream with the main body of the movie, which has its own playlist listed near the bottom of the DESCRIPTION column. I also verified with BDInfo that this is indeed the case; as an example in WMWT, stream 00405.M2TS, the main movie segment, has its own single segment playlist, 00405.MPLS.

I tried to post photos but got the message "Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached." so hope my descriptions are adequate.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:07 am 
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When Marnie was There is a two year-old movie. Now that Universal is doing that stupid obfuscation, you'll never see that situation again.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:02 am 
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MrVideo wrote:
When Marnie was There is a two year-old movie. Now that Universal is doing that stupid obfuscation, you'll never see that situation again.


True, and WMWT was released on disc here about 10 months ago (CITS is a relatively older title by Disney who hasn't caught on with obfuscation yet). But hopefully the information answers your questions and helps the OP better understand what they are encountering.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:33 pm 
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As a Ghibli fan myself, I think I might have an idea. Sometimes in addition to different audio, there will be actual changes to the animation, such as signs being changed to english. Since this isnt part of the subtitle track, but part of the actual video, perhaps this is what you are seeing? And if it starts halfway through a movie, perhaps that was the first instance in the movie of one of these animation changes? Just guessing here. I will be burning some of these soon so I guess I will find out.


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