Feature Request: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Everything related to MakeMKV
Bitwize
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:13 am

Feature Request: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by Bitwize » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:22 am

I LOVE MakeMKV and will be happy to support this great product via my hard-earned cash :)

Having said that, I strongly suggest the addition of pulldown removal for VC-1 HD-DVD's. In fact, I'd make it an automatic process. Without this removal, the resulting MKV playback is very jittery. MKV's created from other sources have very smooth playback.

Please add this feature soon! My collection of 200 HD-DVD's will be most grateful. Thx :)

p.s. Eac3to automatically removes the pulldown for VC-1 HD-DVD.
Last edited by Bitwize on Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

crowfax
Posts: 972
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:55 am

Re: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by crowfax » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:39 am

MakeMKV is not designed to alter the streams in any way. It is designed to give you bit-for-bit perfect copies of your audio and video streams in an MKV container.
Home Theater PC: Assassin HTPC, XBMCbuntu 12.0 (Frodo), Intel i5 3570k 3.4 GHz Ivy Bridge w/ HD 4000, LG BD-ROM
Playback Devices: Mede8er MED600X3D, MyGica EnjoyTV 120, Xtreamer SideWinder 3, Crystal Acoustics MediaMatchBox

setarip_old
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Re: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by setarip_old » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:17 am

@Bitwize

Hi!

1) What are you using to playback the MKVs you've created from your (VC-1) HD-DVDs?




Bitwize
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:13 am

Re: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by Bitwize » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:34 am

crowfax wrote:MakeMKV is not designed to alter the streams in any way. It is designed to give you bit-for-bit perfect copies of your audio and video streams in an MKV container.
Removing pulldown on a VC-1 file does not affect the quality of the video at all. You still have a 100% 1:1 quality copy of the video (and audio).

Bitwize
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:13 am

Re: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by Bitwize » Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:38 am

setarip_old wrote:@Bitwize

Hi!

1) What are you using to playback the MKVs you've created from your (VC-1) HD-DVDs?



A popcorn hour A-200. 1080p/60, 1080p/24, 1080i/30, 720p/60, etc. all play smooth on the A-200. But unless the pulldown is removed from the VC-1 video track of an HD-DVD, the motion is craptastic ;) Adding automatic pulldown removal for HD-DVD is a must if MakeMKV is to "thoroughly" handle MKV creation from an HD-DVD, VC-1 source.

setarip_old
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Re: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by setarip_old » Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:30 am

You might want to click on the following link to an earlier thread at this forum:

http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1265

(And, by all means, click on the links within the individual posts there)




Bitwize
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:13 am

Re: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by Bitwize » Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:44 pm

setarip_old wrote: You might want to click on the following link to an earlier thread at this forum:

http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1265

(And, by all means, click on the links within the individual posts there)



The latest popcorn hour A-200 firmware supports smooth VC-1 playback in MKV, but this does NOT include VC-1 video from HD-DVD. The thread you pointed out is referencing MKV playback with VC-1 from a Blu-ray source. I have zero issues with playing back VC-1/MKV created with MakeMKV, as long as the source is Blu-ray.

VC-1 video tracks from HD-DVD have pulldown flags that should be removed when creating an MKV with MakeMKV. This eliminates motion/playback issues, which is why eac3to does this ;) I'm simply requesting that MakeMKV remove the pulldown flags from VC-1 video tracks if the source is HD-DVD.

setarip_old
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Re: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by setarip_old » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:27 pm

I can only surmise that you didn't click on the 4 links provided in trhat thread by "NomadCF" in the following post:

http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic ... 1265#p5202


Bitwize
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:13 am

Re: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by Bitwize » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:14 am

setarip_old wrote:I can only surmise that you didn't click on the 4 links provided in trhat thread by "NomadCF" in the following post:

http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic ... 1265#p5202

I'm VERY familiar with the links provided. I've owned several Popcorn Hours over the course of 2 years. If I remove the pulldown flags on a VC-1 HD-DVD (using eac3to) and mux to MKV, there are no playback issues on the Popcorn Hour. The very same HD-DVD's with pulldown flags (preserved by MakeMKV) results in a choppy playback MKV.

Removing the pulldown flags allows the VC-1 track to easily be read as 1080p/24 instead of 1080p/30. Anyway, you seem bound and determined to never agree with pulldown flag removal implementation in MakeMKV, so I'll stop "begging."

SamuriHL
Posts: 1725
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by SamuriHL » Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:38 am

I personally don't see what the big deal is to make it OPTIONAL. Even if it's turned off by default for the "purists". It's an option that can make the MKV's more compatible with a wider range of devices. He's not suggesting that you ALWAYS have to enable it, simply to make it an option to those that need/want it. I'm in agreement.

setarip_old
Posts: 2136
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:31 pm

Re: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by setarip_old » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:58 am

@Bitwize

I personally am not "set" on anything regarding the situation you've described (It was another member who said, "MakeMKV is not designed to alter the streams in any way. It is designed to give you bit-for-bit perfect copies of your audio and video streams in an MKV container."). I just wanted to make certain that you saw the same information regarding this topic that I saw posted - and that it might help you. You'd be surprised (maybe not) at how many posts are made saying, in essence, "Oh, I didn't know that!"

Actually, based on what I've seen since the inception of this delightful program, my own sense is that "Mike" is amenable to anything that is sensible (such as your suggestion) that can be simply implemented (also, such as your suggestion) - although it initially took considerable arm twisting and begging to convince him to support my favorite orphan (HD-DVDs) ;>}

BTW - Have you tried playing one of these problematic files under an ordinary PC software player, such as "Splash Lite" or "VLC", to see if it exhibits the same behavior?

Also, since you mention that you have no such problem with playing Blu-ray VC-1s, which as far as I know, are all 1080p, are you sure that none of the difficulty you've encountered is due to the fact that virtually ALL HD-DVDs with VC-1 are 1080i?





Bitwize
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:13 am

Re: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by Bitwize » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:20 pm

setarip_old wrote:@Bitwize

I personally am not "set" on anything regarding the situation you've described (It was another member who said, "MakeMKV is not designed to alter the streams in any way. It is designed to give you bit-for-bit perfect copies of your audio and video streams in an MKV container."). I just wanted to make certain that you saw the same information regarding this topic that I saw posted - and that it might help you. You'd be surprised (maybe not) at how many posts are made saying, in essence, "Oh, I didn't know that!"

Actually, based on what I've seen since the inception of this delightful program, my own sense is that "Mike" is amenable to anything that is sensible (such as your suggestion) that can be simply implemented (also, such as your suggestion) - although it initially took considerable arm twisting and begging to convince him to support my favorite orphan (HD-DVDs) ;>}

BTW - Have you tried playing one of these problematic files under an ordinary PC software player, such as "Splash Lite" or "VLC", to see if it exhibits the same behavior?

Also, since you mention that you have no such problem with playing Blu-ray VC-1s, which as far as I know, are all 1080p, are you sure that none of the difficulty you've encountered is due to the fact that virtually ALL HD-DVDs with VC-1 are 1080i?

Thank you for the kind and thorough reply :) Glad to hear my suggestion is still under consideration.

I too am a big fan of the HD-DVD format and only wish to have a more universally compatible backup option. In order for that to happen, the pulldown flags should be removed from the VC-1 video track of an HD-DVD. Removing the flags does no re-encoding of the video track and in no way alters the quality of the track.

I have no trouble with 1080i file playback per se; but without the removal of the pulldown flags, an HD-DVD MKV is interpreted as 29.97fps instead of 23.976fps. Yes, I realize that most HD-DVD with VC-1 are 1080i, but they are also 23.976fps. The Popcorn Hour sees the HD-DVD MKV as 1080i/30 when in reality it is 1080i/24. This discrepancy results in playback issues. Removing the pulldown flags clears up the "confusion." I'm certain that other hardware players struggle with this as well. It is in no way isolated to the Popcorn Hour.

Adding a pulldown flag removal option for VC-1 HD-DVD is in the best interest of anyone looking for a long-term archiving option. Thank you again for the proactive dialogue on this subject!

Bitwize
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:13 am

Re: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by Bitwize » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:33 pm

setarip_old wrote:@Bitwize

I personally am not "set" on anything regarding the situation you've described (It was another member who said, "MakeMKV is not designed to alter the streams in any way. It is designed to give you bit-for-bit perfect copies of your audio and video streams in an MKV container."). I just wanted to make certain that you saw the same information regarding this topic that I saw posted - and that it might help you. You'd be surprised (maybe not) at how many posts are made saying, in essence, "Oh, I didn't know that!"

Actually, based on what I've seen since the inception of this delightful program, my own sense is that "Mike" is amenable to anything that is sensible (such as your suggestion) that can be simply implemented (also, such as your suggestion) - although it initially took considerable arm twisting and begging to convince him to support my favorite orphan (HD-DVDs) ;>}

BTW - Have you tried playing one of these problematic files under an ordinary PC software player, such as "Splash Lite" or "VLC", to see if it exhibits the same behavior?

Also, since you mention that you have no such problem with playing Blu-ray VC-1s, which as far as I know, are all 1080p, are you sure that none of the difficulty you've encountered is due to the fact that virtually ALL HD-DVDs with VC-1 are 1080i?

I forgot to mention that I created a 1080i/29.97 MKV from a Blu-ray source (yes, the source is 1080i/29.97). This file plays back with zero problems. I also have multiple 1080i/23.976 transport stream files (captured from satellite broadcast) that play back smooth on the Popcorn Hour.

Once again, the Popcorn Hour does not correctly identify a VC-1, HD-DVD MKV as 1080i/23.976 if the pulldown flags are not removed. It interrupts them as 1080i/29.97fps which results in "whacky" playback ;)

dpstjp
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:36 pm

Re: Feature Request: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by dpstjp » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:47 pm

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I'd like to add my support to Bitwize's suggestion for the optional removal of pulldown in MakeMKV.

So that makes two of us!

Ideally I'd like to reprocess all of my existing HDDVD-sourced MKVs to remove pulldown as well, but I'm not entirely sure how to do this in a single step process.

collieindigo
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:34 pm

Re: Feature Request: HD-DVD Pulldown Removal

Post by collieindigo » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:52 pm

First makemkv is,what I was waiting for all the time. It is a realy great program.
I have also some HD_DVD's and have the problem that my Fantec Mediaplayer don't like the 1080p/29Hz.Any chance for a 24p option ?

Thanks

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