Why no full backup for DVDs?

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Rojma
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Rojma »

Chetwood wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:37 am
So, if you wan to strip the menus why do you need full-disc backup for DVDs? Have you tried ripping the main movie with MakeMKV for the DVD that does not work with DVD Shrink?
No it does not. DVD Shrink takes DVD files (e.g. VOBs) and then strips those files of unneeded content. It has no idea what MKVs are or how to convert MKV files back to a DVD friendly format. That is the missing piece I need - convert MKV back to DVD friendly format that does not re-encode.
Chetwood
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Chetwood »

Of course DVD Shrink doesn't know the MKV format but that wasn't my question. You could rip the main movie to MKV with MakeMKV or re-author the disc with DVD Shrink (after having stripped protections with An*DVD or something).
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Rojma
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Rojma »

Chetwood wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:52 am
Of course DVD Shrink doesn't know the MKV format but that wasn't my question. You could rip the main movie to MKV with MakeMKV or re-author the disc with DVD Shrink (after having stripped protections with An*DVD or something).
Chetwood at this point you are more trolling this thread than providing anything useful. It's obvious you haven't read through the whole thread and all of my replies because you keep posting suggestions that either don't make sense, I have already covered, or insinuate that I don't know what I am doing. I can assure you I am extremely technical and the only reason I post here is because I have done everything possible that I can think of doing before coming here. From your very first post in this thread you have been combative which I so far have pretty much ignored. I don't want to get into a back and forth with you. At this point please just move on to some other thread. This should allow others who have something useful to add to this thread to do so. Thank you.

FYI as an experiment I have actually gotten this to work with a trial version of DVDF@b but I don't want to use that program (way too expensive for what I need it for and I do not like several of their business practices). I also do not want to use @nyDVD because that program is no longer under development and cannot be obtained through normal regular means. I much rather use a program developed by the community similar to MakeMKV. Although my problem is technically solved for my existing DVDs having this issue, being technical and curious I would like to learn of other ways to resolve the problem in case I run into it again in the future.
Last edited by Rojma on Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
thetoad
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by thetoad »

In linux its very very easy to make an encrypted backup of a DVD

1) install libdvdcss
2) run lsdvd <dvd device> # uses libdvdcss to authenticate the disc ot the drive, without doing this, will get many read failures
3) ddrescue <dev device> test.iso test.log

this will write out the image to test.iso and if any invalid blocks will mark them in test.log for future attempts

if the disc just has bad block protection, you can ignore the errors, if it has bad scratches and has errors due to that, can try to reread many times or find a different copy to fill in the blanks.

if you are on windows, all you have to use is old school dvd decrypter to write out to iso (not vob) (this will result in a decrypted iso), but won't help you with damaged disc.

can combine them together with an iso mounting tool, and have dvd decrypter decyrpt the mounted iso, but will fail for small VOBs that can't be brute forced.

I've ripped hundreds if not thousands of DVDs using the above process
Rojma
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Rojma »

thetoad wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:27 pm
In linux its very very easy to make an encrypted backup of a DVD

1) install libdvdcss
2) run lsdvd <dvd device> # uses libdvdcss to authenticate the disc ot the drive, without doing this, will get many read failures
3) ddrescue <dev device> test.iso test.log

this will write out the image to test.iso and if any invalid blocks will mark them in test.log for future attempts

if the disc just has bad block protection, you can ignore the errors, if it has bad scratches and has errors due to that, can try to reread many times or find a different copy to fill in the blanks.

if you are on windows, all you have to use is old school dvd decrypter to write out to iso (not vob) (this will result in a decrypted iso), but won't help you with damaged disc.

can combine them together with an iso mounting tool, and have dvd decrypter decyrpt the mounted iso, but will fail for small VOBs that can't be brute forced.

I've ripped hundreds if not thousands of DVDs using the above process
Thanks. I've tried Windows programs that create ISOs and they seem to get stuck due to the "bad block" protection and never finish creating the ISO. However my Plex server is running on UnRaid so I can try from over there. I have actually used ddrescue in the past to try and recover a scratched Blu-Ray (and was actually successful although it took several passes over several days).
Chetwood
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Chetwood »

Rojma wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:22 am
because you keep posting suggestions that either don't make sense, I have already covered, or insinuate that I don't know what I am doing.
Probably because your question did not make sense or lacked relevant info. Why do you want full disc backup for DVDs if their menus are causing playback problems for you? Why not simply rip the main movie of the DVD to MKV? There have been questions by people wanting to put a BD/DVD with menus into a single MKV which is why I mentioned MKVs don't support them.

I have moved on from DVDs years ago so I wasn't aware the industry was still using extra copy protection that DVD Shrink/DVD D*crypter can't bypass so you'd either need Linux or payware. Also, full disc backup is kind of a weird feature for MakeMKV because it creates ISOs, not MKVs.
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Rojma
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Rojma »

Chetwood wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:08 am
Rojma wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:22 am
because you keep posting suggestions that either don't make sense, I have already covered, or insinuate that I don't know what I am doing.
Probably because your question did not make sense or lacked relevant info. Why do you want full disc backup for DVDs if their menus are causing playback problems for you? Why not simply rip the main movie of the DVD to MKV? There have been questions by people wanting to put a BD/DVD with menus into a single MKV which is why I mentioned MKVs don't support them.

I have moved on from DVDs years ago so I wasn't aware the industry was still using extra copy protection that DVD Shrink/DVD D*crypter can't bypass so you'd either need Linux or payware. Also, full disc backup is kind of a weird feature for MakeMKV because it creates ISOs, not MKVs.
And you insist on continuing. That is the definition of a troll. Move on. You are providing no useful feedback. My questions obviously made perfect sense to others as several others have provided useful information which have helped me. I have provided relevant info as they asked. My original question was really just asking why MakeMKV doesn't do full DVD backups when it does for Blu-Rays. That expanded as others asked questions. Who cares why I need a full disc DVD backup. The point is I do and I needed methods to perform one. Instead you sit here and question why I do (which I have actually answered in this thread). I'm happy you have moved on from DVD. If you have moved on from DVD and are not aware of the latest copy protection methods used in DVDs (some of these "latest" protections actually being 10+ years old), then why are you replying in this thread? If you have no useful information to add, then move on and go to some other thread where you do have useful information to provide.
thetoad
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by thetoad »

the reason makemkv does full bluray backups and not DVD, is because there is value in makemkv doing a "protected" backup for blurays (i.e. doesn't have the keys to decrypt it yet) and doing an unprotected backup is just easy. While for DVDs, there's little need for it as can basically be always be brute forced.

one can see this in the fact that makemkv doesn't allow you to take a protected bluray backup and save it as an unprotected backup, but only allows you to turn that protected backup into mkv (which also causes a number of Qs to be asked about why not)

It also goes to the fact that to do a full disc backup of DVDs to a file system is more complicated due to the bad blocks and the like that manufacturers put in. just picking the right "playlist" and following it to make the mkv is much simpler and does the job that the software is designed to do without complicating it.
Chetwood
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Chetwood »

Rojma wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:46 am
My original question was really just asking why MakeMKV doesn't do full DVD backups when it does for Blu-Rays.
Which apparently noone was being able to answer satisfactorily; since Mike hasn't chimed in yet, it's all just speculation.
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Rojma
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Rojma »

Woodstock wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:02 pm
DVD format has a number of ways to create a "backup"; you just need to copy the entire thing to an ISO file. "Just" copying will give the an encrypted file, but a number of players already include the DeCSS library, so it isn't a major issue.

For Bluray, it's not so simple. An encrypted ISO will lack things necessary to remove the encryption. And the tools that can copy DVDs directly run into the drive itself not allowing access without the decryption key.

So MakeMKV has a separate mode to do backups, with the option to remove the encryption at the same time.
It was actually answered in the second post - another sign that you have not read through the whole thread.
Chetwood
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Chetwood »

Was it, really? I read his comment as there being a difference in difficulty in creating unecrypted BD ISOs vs DVD ISOs. Since DVD Shrink and DVD Decr*ypter do exactly that, I see no reason why Mike could no implement routines dealing with newer DVD copy protections. As to why he does not, we can only speculate; just as I wrote in my previous post.
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Rojma
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Rojma »

Some people just never give up. Go away Troll. You are adding no useful information to the thread. I should have just ignored you from the start. My mistake for addressing your comments.
Chetwood
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Chetwood »

Funny, the moment I'm pointing out your mistake you're back to name calling.
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Rojma
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Rojma »

It's not naming calling. It is the truth about what you are doing. It's too bad there are people out there in the world like you that really destroy the Internet experience for everyone else. For you reference the definition of trolling so that you can in fact see that what you are doing is trolling:

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

It's funny how all other replies in this thread were on topic, understood my questions and scenarios, answered my questions, and no one else thought I had any "mistakes". I didn't respond to your accusation because at this point all you are doing is trolling. I refuse to continue feed into your trolling.

The only reason I am responding now is to point out your trolling because you obviously do not know what it is and that what you are doing is wrong. And really why do you continue to respond? You are not adding anything to this thread including relevant information about the subject. Is it just to point out how I am somehow wrong, unknowledgeable, or stupid? Fine I will admit I was wrong, unknowledgeable, and stupid and I posted here in these threads so I could get information from the greats gurus like you so that I could be right, knowledgeable, and not so stupid. Does that make you feel better? I won't be responding to any more of your posts so can you now just go away?
Woodstock
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Re: Why no full backup for DVDs?

Post by Woodstock »

I think this topic has outlived its usefulness, and I'm locking it.
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