HD-DVD backup remove 3:2 pulldown flags?

Discussion of advanced MakeMKV functionality, expert mode, conversion profiles
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dJOS_1475
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:35 pm

HD-DVD backup remove 3:2 pulldown flags?

Post by dJOS_1475 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:45 pm

Hi Guy's, 99% of HD-DVD movies have 3:2 pull-down flags to display the video (which is stored on disc @ 24fps) at 60fps - can we please have an option in MakeMKV (OSX) to forcibly remove the 3:2 pull-down flags for native 24fps video?

My testing shows that MakeMKV leaves the 3:2 pull-down flags in place which results in significantly higher bandwidth required to stream movies from my server over Wi-Fi to my Roku's.

I have over 80 HD-DVD's that I want to backup to my server for playback via Plex and I would happily buy MakeMKV if it had this option.

Even my Toshiba HD-DVD player has a force 24p mode but it's getting pretty old now and I'd like to make sure Im not stuck with ~80 unwatchable movies.

PS. this is the only showstopper for me, MakeMKV ticks every other box perfectly!
Last edited by dJOS_1475 on Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dJOS_1475
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: HD-DVD backup remove 3:2 pulldown flags?

Post by dJOS_1475 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:42 pm

Anyone???

I really want to buy MakeMKV but the lack of this feature is a showstopper for me. it's not like this hasn't been asked for before either:

http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic ... t=pulldown

http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic ... own#p20044

Like I said, I have 80+ HD-DVD's that need ripping so I need to be able to minimise steps and MakeMKV is just sooooo close to being the perfect tool for this!

dJOS_1475
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: HD-DVD backup remove 3:2 pulldown flags?

Post by dJOS_1475 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:55 pm

Btw, here a good explanation of 3:2 pulldown:

http://www.prad.de/en/tv/shownews_faq1257.html
What means 3:2 pulldown?

The original aim of 3:2 pulldown was to create a TV signal that could be broadcast at 60 Hz within the NTSC sector. Various player devices (DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-ray players) can carry out 3:2 pulldown independently with available film sources.

The film material used, with 24 frames per second, is segmented into a 3:2 rhythm (i.e. divided into half frames). The first full frame is divided into to half frames, the second full frame is divided into three half frames (whereby the third is a repetition of the first half frame) and the third full frame into two half frames, etc. This creates 60 half frames per second – the required frequency, which is suitable for broadcasting. This can also be described as a signal with a 3:2 cadence. The disadvantage of this processing method is that it changes the way motion is depicted because the divisional scheme is not linear. The result is some slight juddering.

Since flat screens function on a full frame basis, this type of signal must be deinterlaced before it can be displayed. Well-developed solutions recognise the cadence being played and are therefore able to restore the original full frames. The result is a judder-free 24H signal. This process is also known as “Inverse Telecine” or “Reverse Pulldown”. Unfortunately, the deinterlacers of many televisions are often not stable enough in this regard when it comes to recognising the cadence. They treat the material like video (true 60 half frames per second), so that 60 full frames per second are created (which do not achieve the original quality). Alternatively, the restored full frames are forwarded to the panel in an "unsuitable" (e.g. 3:2) rhythm to allow playback at 60Hz. In both cases, the quality og motion playback suffers.

Slight deviation
Until now, people mainly spoke of 60Hz signals. In fact, those in the broadcasting sector work with 59.84Hz. In order to achieve this frequency, the film material is slowed to a minimum of 23.976 full frames per second by the 3:2 pulldown. This is usually the basis for NTSC DVDs as well as for the new HD media.

3:2 pulldown has not been of much importance in the PAL sector until now, since 50Hz signals are more commonly used in this sector. Here, PAL speedup is used with 2:2 pulldown. The new HD media (HD DVD, Blu-ray) represent one exception. Here, film material with 24 frames per second is saved. The player output can usually be provided at 24Hz (1:1) or 60Hz (using the 3:2 pulldown described above).

paulster
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:54 pm

Re: HD-DVD backup remove 3:2 pulldown flags?

Post by paulster » Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:09 am

Yeah, I wish it could do it too. I end up having to extract the video with eac3to, removing the pulldown flags as I do, and then remux it with mkvtoolnix. Fortunately I didn't have a load of HD-DVDs and I've ripped them all already, but it would have been a great feature to have.

ndjamena
Posts: 830
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:23 am

Re: HD-DVD backup remove 3:2 pulldown flags?

Post by ndjamena » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:48 am

There are a lot of things MakeMKV SHOULD be doing, setting the mpeg2 aspect ratio for DVD rips to the aspect ratio in the IFO rather than the stream for one. But of course it doesn't, however, I think it might be setting the VFR/CFR flag in the streams, so it is possible, but I'm thinking that may be a function of the source libraries MakeMKV is using rather than MakeMKV itself. I don't think MakeMKV can cut excess audio from the end of a title either and I think that's a library problem too.

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