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Re: UHD support

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:46 pm
by Low Winter Sun
As I understand Dolby Atmos, it's delivered within the Dolby TrueHD stream

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?ti ... pid2547074

"When TrueHD was first defined the specification included the ability to add extensions to the TrueHD audio stream, these extensions have been unused until now. When Dolby came to define Atmos, they made use of these TrueHD extensions so an Atmos audio stream is simply a TrueHD stream + extensions, thus any device that supports TrueHD can pass an Atmos stream as it doesn't need to know what is inside those extensions, it simply see's it as TrueHD stream and passes it through as is."
roblrobl wrote:Hi Mike and Others,

Does something still need to be done within MakeMKV to allow or pass through Dolby Atmos audio? Here's what I see:
  • I'm using the Star Trek, Into Darkness UHD/4k disk. IT has HDR (hdr10?) and Dolby Atmos.
  • I perform a full disk backup (57.1GB) and then create a single .mkv file in it with everything selected (52.1GB). Any idea on why the .mkv is smaller?
  • When I open the disk backup with MakeMKV, the best audio shown is TrueHD Surround 7.1 English. When I play the .mkv file using roku/plex on my main TV/amp, the amp agrees. It's "Dolby+ 7.1 surround" or 7.2.0 and not 7.2.4. The ceiling speakers are not firing.
  • Another poster claimed Dolby Atmos was perhaps mislabeled at the 7.1 stream. It doesn't seem this way to me. From what I understand, Atmos and DTS:X are both object based methods, like PC audio, where various streams have positional information, and then the stereo mixes them all to the appropriate speakers. This is quite different than the 1 speaker = 1 audio stream approach.
  • Also, for the Video steam showing up as MpegH, is there any way we can get more definition on this in a future version of MakeMKV? Perhaps something that shows if it is non-hdr, hrd10, dolby vision, etc. It seems that 4k bluray players are able disregard the hdr info, and some of our PC tools don't understand them yet. Would it be possible to see them as different video streams? (such as 4k non-hdr, vs 4k hdr10?) Or an option to strip out the HDR metadata?
Thanks for any help!

Re: UHD support

Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 11:32 pm
by roblrobl
Low Winter Sun wrote:As I understand Dolby Atmos, it's delivered within the Dolby TrueHD stream

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?ti ... pid2547074

"When TrueHD was first defined the specification included the ability to add extensions to the TrueHD audio stream, these extensions have been unused until now. When Dolby came to define Atmos, they made use of these TrueHD extensions so an Atmos audio stream is simply a TrueHD stream + extensions, thus any device that supports TrueHD can pass an Atmos stream as it doesn't need to know what is inside those extensions, it simply see's it as TrueHD stream and passes it through as is."
Thanks - good to know! When played from my uhd player, the movie correctly shows up on my amp as dolby atmos. When plex is playing the .mkv file, it shows up as dolby+ Truehd. Sounds like the data is likely in the .mkv file, but that plex is munging it somehow and not passing it through to the amp properly. All this is quite new, so I expect it will take a few different versions of each of the programs to come together ...

Re: UHD support

Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:07 am
by Trickyd-1
M2ts files have a lot of overhead compared to MKV.
It’s not unusual to save a couple of GB when remuxing from m2ts to mkv

I’m not sure why you’re having issues with Atmos but the rips i’ve Made bitstream the Atmos soundtrack fine.

Re: UHD support

Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:33 am
by mmmkv
Was searching around but couldn't find a clear explanation of how the 'Highest AACS version' detected that I'd seen posted around affects drives. Read on this board in an older topic that Blu-Ray discs contain a list of revoked decryption keys that after being read by the drive will cause it to not be able to decrypt those keys again.

So is it the case that users are required to wait until the software reading it supports the version of the revoked key list on the disc to avoid this occurring? How does this relate to 'UHD-friendly' drives, where they technically can read the content but aren't AACS 2.0 'officially supported' drives—do users have to wait for updates to ripping software before trying their discs to avoid potential lock-outs?

I'd love any clarifications if my understanding is incorrect.

Re: UHD support

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:41 am
by ddharber22
roblrobl wrote:
Low Winter Sun wrote:As I understand Dolby Atmos, it's delivered within the Dolby TrueHD stream

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?ti ... pid2547074

"When TrueHD was first defined the specification included the ability to add extensions to the TrueHD audio stream, these extensions have been unused until now. When Dolby came to define Atmos, they made use of these TrueHD extensions so an Atmos audio stream is simply a TrueHD stream + extensions, thus any device that supports TrueHD can pass an Atmos stream as it doesn't need to know what is inside those extensions, it simply see's it as TrueHD stream and passes it through as is."
Thanks - good to know! When played from my uhd player, the movie correctly shows up on my amp as dolby atmos. When plex is playing the .mkv file, it shows up as dolby+ Truehd. Sounds like the data is likely in the .mkv file, but that plex is munging it somehow and not passing it through to the amp properly. All this is quite new, so I expect it will take a few different versions of each of the programs to come together ...

Hey roblrobl,

I believe you are seeing that because the Roku models don't support TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio (which carry the Atmos and DTS:X information). You can't do passthrough audio on the Roku models, so it is likely being transcoded to 7.1 by the Plex server. Your UHD player can play both of these formats, so they can read the file directly and passthrough the audio to your AVR, which reads it correctly as an Atmos track. This is a major hardware limitation of the Roku models. There are only a few devices with a Plex app that support bitstreamed audio (to my knowledge: Xbox One S/X, Nvidia Shield 4K). There may be others, but those should support it at this time.

Re: UHD support

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:02 pm
by roblrobl
ddharber22 wrote:I believe you are seeing that because the Roku models don't support TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio (which carry the Atmos and DTS:X information). You can't do passthrough audio on the Roku models, so it is likely being transcoded to 7.1 by the Plex server. Your UHD player can play both of these formats, so they can read the file directly and passthrough the audio to your AVR, which reads it correctly as an Atmos track. This is a major hardware limitation of the Roku models. There are only a few devices with a Plex app that support bitstreamed audio (to my knowledge: Xbox One S/X, Nvidia Shield 4K). There may be others, but those should support it at this time.
That makes perfect sense, thank you! I've tried roku, my samsung 4k disk player, and the xbox 1x, all running plex. Source is a full .mkv file of star trek into darkness. No go for me, it appears that plex feels it must transcode everything, so that transcoding is likely stripping out the atmos off the truhd 7.1 stream, and the hdr10 on the video stream (as video is very bright). I'm looking at the Plex Media Server.log and Plex Transcode Statistics.log in verbose mode, and wow is it verbose. :) I see that it's telling me it picked transcoding (sourceVideoCodec="hevc" sourceAudioCodec="truehd" videoDecision="transcode" audioDecision="transcode"), but am unsure why. Seems like it thinks Xbox1x can't play either hevc nor truehd.

Any suggestions on forcing plex to work properly?

Re: UHD support

Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:34 pm
by starmax
roblrobl wrote:
That makes perfect sense, thank you! I've tried roku, my samsung 4k disk player, and the xbox 1x, all running plex. Source is a full .mkv file of star trek into darkness. No go for me, it appears that plex feels it must transcode everything, so that transcoding is likely stripping out the atmos off the truhd 7.1 stream, and the hdr10 on the video stream (as video is very bright). I'm looking at the Plex Media Server.log and Plex Transcode Statistics.log in verbose mode, and wow is it verbose. :) I see that it's telling me it picked transcoding (sourceVideoCodec="hevc" sourceAudioCodec="truehd" videoDecision="transcode" audioDecision="transcode"), but am unsure why. Seems like it thinks Xbox1x can't play either hevc nor truehd.

Any suggestions on forcing plex to work properly?
I was able to rip the first half of Deadpool and play it back on my Android TV (built-in to my Sony X800E). It played the video w/o transcoding, but transcoded the audio since I don't have it hooked up to a AVR. I would check your TV's settings for HDR and Audio bit streaming, also make sure you Plex settings are set to "original quality" for the Video and Audio streams.

Re: UHD support

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:47 pm
by Warmongerx
Far as I know, the Plex Media server only makes the decision on what to transcode based on the clients reporting of it. In this case, that's whatever your trying to play from. I'd check all the settings on your xbox. See if there is one for passthrough of audio and something for video as well. and if you're still having trouble check the forums on Plex for that client or ask on the Plex Reddit thread, both good sources.

My Nvidia Sheild which is hooked to my Denon passes through all audio formats as well as HEVC, so I see the Atmos and DTS X and was able to do the same on my HTPC Windows 10 machine with GTX 1050 vid card. There are no settings on the PMS to set for that kind of thing.

Re: UHD support

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:51 am
by dinkleburg21
Thanks Mike for the great software!

I have two questions,

1) Is their an advantage of making backups in BDMV format compared to ISO?

2) When making full disc UHD backups with Makemkv in BDMV format, does it retain all the information including HDR10 and Dolby Vision?

Re: UHD support

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:15 pm
by starmax
dinkleburg21 wrote:Thanks Mike for the great software!

I have two questions,

1) Is their an advantage of making backups in BDMV format compared to ISO?

2) When making full disc UHD backups with Makemkv in BDMV format, does it retain all the information including HDR10 and Dolby Vision?
1) I am not aware of any, personally I prefer ISO images over just about every other format, just wish Windows had native support for creating, mounting, etc

2) yes, did this yesterday with The Amazing Spider-man 2

Re: UHD support

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:55 am
by Het Beest
starmax wrote:1) I am not aware of any, personally I prefer ISO images over just about every other format, just wish Windows had native support for creating, mounting, etc
Windows 10 (I do not know about earlier versions) HAS support for ISO images; be it, just for mounting but I think that is more than enough for what we are doing here.
Click with the right (not left, that is) mouse button on the ISO, choose ''Open with...'', choose ''Explorer'' and your ISO is mounted.

Re: UHD support

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:44 am
by enzolt
I wonder if there is a way to use the Spectre and/or Meltdown bug to access the proper keys/algorithms when accessing a UHD disk...

Re: UHD support

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:10 am
by skiddy
Does 1.10.9 fix the UHD disc locking issue? The release notes are a little vauge.

Re: UHD support

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:00 am
by ghost rider
Looks like I set Makemkv up correct. Got my Asus BW-16D1HT and popped it in and this time Anydvd tried to read it but had a error. Makemkv read it and and I shouls have the Martian ripped in a total of 40 minutes. Looks like I'm buying Makemkv.

So my next question is can I make a "movie only" BD25 backup my guess is yes? When it gets done ripping I'll probably figure that out.

Re: UHD support

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:28 am
by Nick Nickel
This has already worked for me with the 1.10.8.