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UHD FAQ

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:42 am
by preserve
Last Revised: Feb 14, 2018.

MakeMKV supports over 800 UHD discs!

Forums

BEFORE you post
- Read this FAQ.
- Double check that you are using the latest version of MakeMKV and the latest hashed keys.

Posting Guidelines
- If your problem is related to a UHD disc, search this UHD forum for the name of the movie or TV show. If there's an existing thread, add to it. If you don't find an existing thread, make a new thread with the title of the movie or TV show as the subject of the thread. This increases the chance that someone who owns the same disc will see the thread and help you, and it helps others having the same issue to find related threads in the future.
- Otherwise, make a new thread if you have a general usage question.
- Include as many details, such as screenshots and/or MakeMKV's console/debug log, as possible.
- Don't use short and generic thread titles such as "help" or "subtitles". Always be specific in your thread title and in your message.

UHD Basics

I'm new to MakeMKV - what should I do first?
Turn on Expert Mode in Preferences -> General. Expert Mode is really not complicated, and options and functionality being discussed in the forums will make more sense if you have Expert Mode turned on.

What version of MakeMKV works with UHD?
Starting with version 1.10.8, MakeMKV supports UHD - but you should always use the latest version for important updates, especially because UHD support keeps developing and evolving. For UHD support, there have already been several new versions with important updates that have made the previous versions obsolete. MakeMKV is frequently updated, so check here for the latest version.

What drives work with UHDs?
Check out the "UHD drives" thread for a full report. So far, the drive with the most reported success is the ASUS BW-16D1HT.

My drive isn't on the list, and it doesn't work with MakeMKV!
The "UHD drives" thread is there for a reason. Those are the drives that MakeMKV is able to use (and the same thing applies to other UHD applications). However, if your drive isn't on the list and you discover that it DOES work, post in that thread to let us know!

Should I update the firmware on my UHD drive?
No, DO NOT update your drive's firmware. See the "UHD drives" thread.

Hashed Keys

How does MakeMKV work with UHDs?
Read the hashed keys thread, download the latest key file in that thread, and put it in your MakeMKV data directory (which is set in the preferences - NOT the program directory). Bookmark that thread and visit it from time to time, because the keys_hashed.txt download is often updated!

How do I discover the key for a disc I have?
Right now there is no public way to do this, however: MakeMKV produces a dump file whenever you try to open a disc for which the key is unknown. If you send these dumps to svq@makemkv.com, the disc will be supported in a future hashed keys update.

I submitted a dump, but it still isn't added to the hashed keys - how long does it take?
The hashed keys file is normally updated within 48 hours after you send the dump.
If that's not the case, it's possible the dump you submitted was a bad dump.
To avoid bad dumps, make sure that all of the following are true:
- You are using a version of MakeMKV either 1.12.0 or newer
- You are using a "friendly" drive, and not an "official" one (BU40N or WH16NS60, Pioneer)
- You have "allow contacting web server for updates" enabled in preferences
- You are opening the original disc (not a backup, not ISO, etc)
- You are opening the disc using real disc drive natively (no elby clonedrive, no vmware, no dvdfab or discsoft virtual, etc)

I have a list of keys, can I post it here?
No. Mike has requested that keys should not be posted in these forums.

I see more than one key for my movie, but MakeMKV won't open the disc.
There are multiple versions of UHDs for each movie (countries, retailers, rentals) and there may be multiple keys for even the same version, so it's possible that the key you have isn't the correct one for your particular disc.

If there's no key yet, is there a way to still "test" a disc to make sure the disc is good?
You can use MakeMKV's Backup function to copy the entire undecrypted disc to your hard drive, and then later, once a key is known, you can use MakeMKV to open the disc backup off your hard drive. When you start MakeMKV, don't open the disc - just push the Backup button, an icon with a green arrow pointing into a yellow folder, second-from-left in the top row of icons. (And make sure to send the AACS dump to svq@makemkv.com so that support for your disc can be added!)

Problems

MakeMKV reports MEDIUM ERROR or "corrupt or invalid at offset" errors while ripping.
This means that MakeMKV cannot physically read the medium (the UHD disc). This is usually due to either the disc not being perfectly clean (check your disc thoroughly from different angles under a bright light and carefully use a soft dry microfiber cloth to clean it) or it could be due to a defective disc, which can happen with all disc-based formats.

When I watch a UHD rip, how come I see blockiness, or the audio stutters, or the framerate won't keep up?
Some recommended playback software has been http://mpv.io or http://mpc-hc.org with madvr. Also, check out our UHD Processing thread for discussions on reducing bitrate with software such as Handbrake. Don't use VLC.

How come my powerful computer (insert specs here) can't play MKV files smoothly?
On Blu-ray, each h.264 frame is encoded as 4 independent slices - this means that it is possible to decode any given frame using 4 parallel tasks. On UHD, each HEVC frame is encoded as 8 independent slices. Hardware decoders take advantage of this, but open-source software decoders don't use such acceleration. That's why a smart TV can easily play a high-bitrate HEVC from UHD, but could fail even on much lower bitrate MKVs from Handbrake. (Thanks to Mike for the info!)

When I watch a UHD rip on my computer or on a non-HDR TV, why are the colors muted or flat?
HDR UHDs contain metadata for the HDR. They also use Rec. 2020 / BT.2020, which is a 10-bit or 12-bit WCG (wide color gamut) color space (compared to Blu-rays or SDR UHDs, which use the Rec. 709 HDTV color space). If you view HDR content on a non-HDR monitor, the colors will appear muted. Some playback software, such as http://mpv.io or http://mpc-hc.org with madvr, have various "tone mapping" methods to display the video - usually adequately - on non-HDR monitors. (Not to be confused with looking at raw or log video - that's different!)

KEYDB.cfg Volume Keys

What about the old KEYDB.cfg method?
The KEYDB.cfg method still works with MakeMKV. Download the latest KEYDB.cfg file and put this file in the MakeMKV data directory (specified in the preferences).

Where can I find more volume keys?
Volume keys are being posted on another forum in this thread. Bookmark the thread and check it from time to time for either the latest KEYDB.cfg file or for new keys. New volume keys can be simply added to the end of the KEYDB.cfg file with any plain text editor such as Notepad.

How can I check if known volume keys for a movie match the specific disc I have?
Each volume key in the KEYDB.cfg file comes with a hash - specifically, it's an SHA1 hash of a file on the disc: AACS\Unit_Key_RO.inf. So just check the hash of the file on your own disc, and see if it matches any of the known keys for that movie.

Re: UHD FAQ

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:08 pm
by yorgo
Thanks, preserve, excellent work. I would recommend one change, that you put a revision date, or "last revised", whatever, at the top of the post, something that states the last time you will have updated. We're in the "wild frontier" of UHD de-encrypting and processing so I expect that there will be numerous changes to how MakeMKV handles UHD discs over time (in a year or two, I can envision things being radically different).

I also request that the mods make this a sticky.

Re: UHD FAQ

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:37 pm
by gereral1
When I watch a UHD rip on a non-HDR TV or computer screen, why are the colors muted?
HDR UHDs use Rec. 2020 / BT.2020, which is a 10-bit or 12-bit WCG (wide color gamut) color space (compared to Blu-rays, which use the Rec. 709 HDTV color space). If you view Rec. 2020 on a non-HDR monitor, the colors will appear muted. Some playback software, such as madvr have various "tone mapping" methods to HDR to SDR on the fly during playback. If you are converting your rips, also note whether or not your conversion software is converting the color space, as well as which tone mapping method the conversion software is using.

I spent 4 solid months writing a program called XDR. Google the Kodi HDR project to learn more. This is designed to play any HDR material on normal TVs and projectors removing the dull washed out color. Allows custom meta data in 8,10,24..... Bit float at UHD resolutions. Works on win 7,10 64 bit versions w/custom presenter evr filter in mpcbe 64bit. Written in visual studio. Automatic xdr cal detection in kodi and windows shell. This software does what madvr can do but playback is smoother. Can work to make Blu-ray rips look like HDR to by pumping up the levels past your TVs ability in the software...... :mrgreen:

Re: UHD FAQ

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:00 am
by PaulCB
gereral1 wrote:
When I watch a UHD rip on a non-HDR TV or computer screen, why are the colors muted?
HDR UHDs use Rec. 2020 / BT.2020, which is a 10-bit or 12-bit WCG (wide color gamut) color space (compared to Blu-rays, which use the Rec. 709 HDTV color space). If you view Rec. 2020 on a non-HDR monitor, the colors will appear muted. Some playback software, such as madvr have various "tone mapping" methods to HDR to SDR on the fly during playback. If you are converting your rips, also note whether or not your conversion software is converting the color space, as well as which tone mapping method the conversion software is using.

I spent 4 solid months writing a program called XDR. Google the Kodi HDR project to learn more. This is designed to play any HDR material on normal TVs and projectors removing the dull washed out color. Allows custom meta data in 8,10,24..... Bit float at UHD resolutions. Works on win 7,10 64 bit versions w/custom presenter evr filter in mpcbe 64bit. Written in visual studio. Automatic xdr cal detection in kodi and windows shell. This software does what madvr can do but playback is smoother. Can work to make Blu-ray rips look like HDR to by pumping up the levels past your TVs ability in the software...... :mrgreen:
You are mixing up WCG and HDR in this comment which was (incorrectly) used above. "If you view Rec. 2020 on a non-HDR monitor, the colors will appear muted." Rec 2020 (actually currently a bigger wrapper for the smaller DCI-P3 color space being delievered) is about Wide Color Gamut while HDR is about Contrast range (HDR10, DV) so combining them in that sentence that way is incorrect and misleading as they are two very different things. It could read "If you view Rec 2020 (WCG) content with a player that cannot support it or support remapping to your display which doesn't support it, it will appear muted." That said, I believe the issues is HDR, not Rec 2020 but I need to find the discussion on the topic before I can say for certain.
Eg would be what you see with VLC vs. MPC-HC/BE on standard computer monitor.

Re: UHD FAQ

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:05 am
by preserve
Yes, gereral1's comment quoted the FAQ but did not include the whole quote in the quote wrapper. It is hard not to conflate HDR and WCG because TVs are all about HDR and the term WCG is not often used or discussed, not to mention that each TV manufacturer has their own catchy marketing terms for levels of HDR/WCG compliancy. The technical details - and the different tone mapping curves used by different TVs, which make a huge difference - are not presented clearly to the consumer. That said, I will think about this some more with your suggestion and try to update the FAQ accordingly. Thanks PaulCB!

Re: UHD FAQ

Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:34 pm
by preserve
PaulCB wrote:That said, I believe the issues is HDR, not Rec 2020 but I need to find the discussion on the topic before I can say for certain.
Any further thoughts?

I think it might be a combination of both factors, but I'm still scratching the surface and haven't yet got deep enough into the technical aspects to figure it out.

I looked up the "Ultra HD Premium" certification minimum specs, from the UHD Alliance, as a starting point. Obviously standard computer monitors (as well as many early 4K TVs - my Dad has one - before HDR was a thing) do not meet the specs in both the color and the HDR categories:
Devices
Image Resolution: 3840x2160
Color Bit Depth: 10-bit signal
Color Palette (Wide Color Gamut)
• Signal Input: BT.2020 color representation
• Display Reproduction: More than 90% of P3 colors
High Dynamic Range
• SMPTE ST2084 EOTF
• A combination of peak brightness and black level either:
More than 1000 nits peak brightness and less than 0.05 nits black level
OR
More than 540 nits peak brightness and less than 0.0005 nits black level

Distribution
• Image Resolution: 3840x2160
• Color Bit Depth: Minimum 10-bit signal
• Color: BT.2020 color representation
• High Dynamic Range: SMPTE ST2084 EOTF

Content Master
• Image Resolution: 3840x2160
• Color Bit Depth: Minimum 10-bit signal
• Color: BT.2020 color representation
• High Dynamic Range: SMPTE ST2084 EOTF

Recommended mastering display specifications
• Display Reproduction: Minimum 100% of P3 colors
• Peak Brightness: More than 1000 nits
• Black Level: Less than 0.03 nits
Non-HDR 4K discs are not as common, but they're out there. The only non-HDR 4K I have, Stranger Things UHD, also doesn't use BT.2020 - it's BT.709. So as you'd expect, it looks just fine on a regular computer monitor, TV or projector.

I'd be curious if there are any Non-HDR 4K discs that use BT.2020.

I've been thinking about importing the French Valerian 4K, which is also supposedly non-HDR, but I haven't seen that confirmed and I can't find any info about what's on the Blu-ray bonus disc which is what I'm mostly interested in - I've got it on my wish list and have been watching it, hoping for the price to go down.

Re: UHD FAQ

Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:10 am
by DavVador
preserve wrote:I've been thinking about importing the French Valerian 4K, which is also supposedly non-HDR, but I haven't seen that confirmed and I can't find any info about what's on the Blu-ray bonus disc which is what I'm mostly interested in - I've got it on my wish list and have been watching it, hoping for the price to go down.
I have the French Valerian UHD disc with bonus, i'll take a look later and tell you.
This is a non HDR version with BT.709 (says mpc). A bit sad other countries do have HDR while this french movie doesnt have in france :(

Re: UHD FAQ

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:11 pm
by bigtom
Where is the file location to these dumps? No where does it say where on the file system to look for said dump file. If its in the .MakeMKV directory which is usually in your user directory then why when i get a failed to open disk do i not see my dump file to send?

Re: UHD FAQ

Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:57 pm
by Woodstock
Preferences->General will tell you where MakeMKV is putting data files. You can set it to wherever you want.

Re: UHD FAQ

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:30 am
by zenon
The FAQ explicitly says not to use VLC. Is VLC 3.0 any better?

Re: UHD FAQ

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:57 am
by st4evr
zenon wrote:The FAQ explicitly says not to use VLC. Is VLC 3.0 any better?
From personal experience it’s not. They still have a long road ahead when it comes to UHD BD playback.