UHD sourced from 2K files

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Lovely Rita
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UHD sourced from 2K files

Post by Lovely Rita » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:46 pm

Sharing this with the collective. :wink:
Have seen a few of you post this same question.
Answered by AV guru, Scott Wilkinson

http://www.avsforum.com/uhd-blu-rays-of ... k-editors/
Last edited by Lovely Rita on Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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gereral1
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Re: UHD sourced from 2K files

Post by gereral1 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:30 am

Lovely Rita wrote:Sharing this with the collective. :wink:
Have seen a few of you post this same question.
Answered by AV guru, Scott Wilkinson.

http://www.avsforum.com/uhd-blu-rays-of ... k-editors/
I encode all my UHD to 2k 1440p ;) I decided to share this. Kept it on the low for many months. 13-15 Mbit is sweet spot. Takes 50gig down to 16 gig with excellent quality with untouched atmos or dtsx
. triggers HDR on TV no problem. Madvr sends out at 1440p and TV upscales it to 4k....
Last edited by gereral1 on Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

gereral1
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Re: UHD sourced from 2K files

Post by gereral1 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:40 am

And HDR triggers at 1440p on TV too.....

preserve
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Re: UHD sourced from 2K files

Post by preserve » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:58 am

Thanks for the link - not very in-depth, but nice all the same.

Because the vast majority of UHDs do come from a 2K DI, instead of "UHD sourced from 2K files," I like to look at it the opposite way - which UHDs come from 4K (or very near 4K) masters.

Before I buy, I use this list to see which releases come from 4K masters:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=270798
Using: ASUS BW-16D1HT 3.00

Lovely Rita
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Re: UHD sourced from 2K files

Post by Lovely Rita » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:43 am

preserve wrote:
Before I buy, I use this list to see which releases come from 4K masters:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=270798
Another good source:
http://realorfake4k.com/
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cmdrdredd
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Re: UHD sourced from 2K files

Post by cmdrdredd » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:03 am

Call them fake or whatever but there are some UHD discs that look absolutely fantastic from a 2k DI.

mmmkv
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Re: UHD sourced from 2K files

Post by mmmkv » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:47 am

Lovely Rita wrote:Sharing this with the collective. :wink:
Have seen a few of you post this same question.
Answered by AV guru, Scott Wilkinson.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/index.php ... 382?page=1
The thread doesn't load for me. For seeing which UHD releases are upscales I use this list. You still get increased fidelity and chroma sub-sampling from upscales, but obviously native-res transfers are ideal, assuming the quality is there in the source.

Ph886
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Re: UHD sourced from 2K files

Post by Ph886 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:13 pm

cmdrdredd wrote:Call them fake or whatever but there are some UHD discs that look absolutely fantastic from a 2k DI.
exactly, this is not a black\white issue. Simply calling it "fake" so it must be bad is a disservice to other users and yourself (not whom I am quoting). There are 2k DI sourced that look better than native 4K sourced, what do you do then? say it has to be trickery because its "fake"....

Lovely Rita
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Re: UHD sourced from 2K files

Post by Lovely Rita » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:04 pm

I didn't intend for this to "rattle the natives". :wink:

I, personally, was not aware that (most?) CGI is rendered in 2K and had seen others questioning UHD/2K, hence the post.

No opinions from me on 2K/4K/UHD because due cabinet size/viewing distance restrictions in my home theater setup I would not see any difference, other than possibly the HDR aspect. :wink:
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ttringle
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Re: UHD sourced from 2K files

Post by ttringle » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:57 pm

cmdrdredd wrote:Call them fake or whatever but there are some UHD discs that look absolutely fantastic from a 2k DI.
Agreed, the fact is that HEVC as a codec is more modern and the process of creating the 4K encode from the 2K Intermediate just ends up with a better looking end product. Throw HDR and higher Bitrate True HD or DTS-HD audio and 4K Bluray is a no brainer for me.

gereral1
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Re: UHD sourced from 2K files

Post by gereral1 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:51 pm

ttringle wrote:
cmdrdredd wrote:Call them fake or whatever but there are some UHD discs that look absolutely fantastic from a 2k DI.
Agreed, the fact is that HEVC as a codec is more modern and the process of creating the 4K encode from the 2K Intermediate just ends up with a better looking end product. Throw HDR and higher Bitrate True HD or DTS-HD audio and 4K Bluray is a no brainer for me.
Not to get technical but madvr on 1440p will pass HDR thru-put if you own HDR compatible card. I choose to use pixel shader math and switch my TV to bt2020 color. Set nits at 390 and the HDR disks look way better than my Samsung uhd player. HDR TVs have a BIG problem with local dimming in HDR mode.Running madvr in pixel shader math to your display ensures bright clear non over contrast hdr because the light levels are adjusted based on the luma. My Sony xbr850c 65 inch explodes with color and rich blacks and whites leaving HDR OFF (funny) and the TV in vivid mode but letting madvr push the nits to my HDR limit. HDR looks more duller than rec709 mode in my opion.The result is HDR that even looks better than oleds. Another tip for all you to ponder......2k vs 4 k no difference in my test encodes. 16-20 gig 1440 rips encode quicker and require less bitrate ex. 13mbit video nitrate vs 23-25 Mbit for 4k. The main reason is 2k is 1/2 resolution of 4k thus half the biterate to do the same. To test you can slice a 4 k movie into 45 sec clips to speed up encoding testing on small samples from mkv using mxvtoolnix to get an idea of the size and quality at different bitrates. This speeds up indexing and testing in the encoder. I use highest speed and 13mbit 2 pass at 1440p x265 in my how to video . The encodes keep the 10 bit pipeline. Try some tests. You will be surprised. Maybe I'll redo that video taking you through in fine detail how to do this from beginning to end. If your messing around with HDR rips I assume most people already have the file based knowledge to use mkvtoolnix and how to do forced subs, drop unwanted audio tracks ect. I just got rid of Adobe premier and just started using resolve. It's rough but as I do more videos the time effort and video quality will return to my YouTube videos. Later

cmdrdredd
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Re: UHD sourced from 2K files

Post by cmdrdredd » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:31 am

gereral1 wrote:Not to get technical but madvr on 1440p will pass HDR thru-put if you own HDR compatible card. I choose to use pixel shader math and switch my TV to bt2020 color. Set nits at 390 and the HDR disks look way better than my Samsung uhd player. HDR TVs have a BIG problem with local dimming in HDR mode.Running madvr in pixel shader math to your display ensures bright clear non over contrast hdr because the light levels are adjusted based on the luma. My Sony xbr850c 65 inch explodes with color and rich blacks and whites leaving HDR OFF (funny) and the TV in vivid mode but letting madvr push the nits to my HDR limit. HDR looks more duller than rec709 mode in my opion.The result is HDR that even looks better than oleds. Another tip for all you to ponder......2k vs 4 k no difference in my test encodes. 16-20 gig 1440 rips encode quicker and require less bitrate ex. 13mbit video nitrate vs 23-25 Mbit for 4k. The main reason is 2k is 1/2 resolution of 4k thus half the biterate to do the same. To test you can slice a 4 k movie into 45 sec clips to speed up encoding testing on small samples from mkv using mxvtoolnix to get an idea of the size and quality at different bitrates. This speeds up indexing and testing in the encoder. I use highest speed and 13mbit 2 pass at 1440p x265 in my how to video . The encodes keep the 10 bit pipeline. Try some tests. You will be surprised. Maybe I'll redo that video taking you through in fine detail how to do this from beginning to end. If your messing around with HDR rips I assume most people already have the file based knowledge to use mkvtoolnix and how to do forced subs, drop unwanted audio tracks ect. I just got rid of Adobe premier and just started using resolve. It's rough but as I do more videos the time effort and video quality will return to my YouTube videos. Later
Um...no. You're saying turning off the benefits of HDR looks better? rec.709 looks better than bt.2020 color? Sorry but I'll never buy that.

The reason you think TVs have a problem with local dimming when playing HDR is because your TV, the Sony 850c doesn't have any local dimming at all. No matter the content played it has no ability to dim any portion of the TV. Higher end TVs do have this ability across all content displayed.

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