Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

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Lovely Rita
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by Lovely Rita » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:49 pm

Yet another reason NOT to jump on the this “Bullsh_t” format bandwagon. :roll:
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d00zah
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by d00zah » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:59 pm

Resistance is futile!! :lol:

Lovely Rita
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by Lovely Rita » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:06 pm

d00zah wrote:Resistance is futile!! :lol:
Classic :D
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TheSound
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by TheSound » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:50 am

So, if a title is part of the key list, its not a 2.1 title? That would be then probably the most important info for now...

d00zah
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by d00zah » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:17 am

TheSound wrote:So, if a title is part of the key list, its not a 2.1 title? That would be then probably the most important info for now...
Until Mike announces otherwise... as always.

mike admin
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by mike admin » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:55 pm

Woodstock wrote:Cinavia is another kind of copy protection that is "in the video", and yet it matters naught when played on anything EXCEPT an "official Blu-ray specification" player.
Same with AACS 2.1 FM - no "negative" effects except that the decrypted FMTS file encodes your player serial number (or rather the player the decryption keys come from), in a way, that it cannot be removed. You can even play this file on "official" player, assuming there is no cinavia in audio.

SamuriHL
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by SamuriHL » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:14 pm

mike admin wrote:
Woodstock wrote:Cinavia is another kind of copy protection that is "in the video", and yet it matters naught when played on anything EXCEPT an "official Blu-ray specification" player.
Same with AACS 2.1 FM - no "negative" effects except that the decrypted FMTS file encodes your player serial number (or rather the player the decryption keys come from), in a way, that it cannot be removed. You can even play this file on "official" player, assuming there is no cinavia in audio.
Ewwww, so they're watermarking the decrypted stream on the fly? Yuck.

TheShoe
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by TheShoe » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:58 pm

SamuriHL wrote:
mike admin wrote:
Woodstock wrote:Cinavia is another kind of copy protection that is "in the video", and yet it matters naught when played on anything EXCEPT an "official Blu-ray specification" player.
Same with AACS 2.1 FM - no "negative" effects except that the decrypted FMTS file encodes your player serial number (or rather the player the decryption keys come from), in a way, that it cannot be removed. You can even play this file on "official" player, assuming there is no cinavia in audio.
Ewwww, so they're watermarking the decrypted stream on the fly? Yuck.
sure. that way if you capture the stream via another device, it is now watermarked

but the decryption process would have to do this, and since makemkv and the competing backup programs are using their own decrypt code, i don’t see how this would ever be an issue since the software would decrypt but not encode the device info into the decrypted stream

SamuriHL
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by SamuriHL » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:17 pm

TheShoe wrote: sure. that way if you capture the stream via another device, it is now watermarked

but the decryption process would have to do this, and since makemkv and the competing backup programs are using their own decrypt code, i don’t see how this would ever be an issue since the software would decrypt but not encode the device info into the decrypted stream
Given I don't know the decryption methodology for AACS 2.1, I'd say that's potentially true. All I'm saying is that's nasty. Not going to impact 99% of us as we're just making our own backups, but, the more complicated they make these things the easier they are to break. Corrupting a stream with "imperceptible data" still has the potential for degrading the quality of the stream. I understand wanting to protect their IP, but, it should not come at a cost of potential quality. Cinavia is one thing where it's mastered into the stream upon creation, but, this is something different where it's happening on the fly in realtime as the stream is decrypted. There is potential for corruption.

gereral1
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by gereral1 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:13 am

Capturing stream for personal use you will be ok. Put that file on a piracy site then if anyone who works to inforce fmts will download your shared file and get your uhd players serial number. Then they can access the players company database and get your home location thru the players update. When you are prompted a new update is available how do they know your players outdated? They access your player via your ip and send a compare update request. If players version is older the player may force update or ask you! So your ip for your uhd player is already stored on their update servers. Fmts staff with a simple inquiry can get the ip by the players serial which is watermarked in the entire video capture. Dont share your captures if you decide to go that route.

SamuriHL
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by SamuriHL » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:07 am

I've never shared a video and never would. I haven't spent many thousands of dollars on a home entertainment system to jack content. In my case my physical UHD player has never been connected to a network nor will it be. Any firmware updates that are required are done offline. If they eventually require a connection to view content on it, then it will get disconnected and thrown in a closet somewhere. I'm not playing that game with them. I rip to MKV format so I can use my SHIELD and/or J River MC off my NAS. That's it. I just want my own personal "VUDU" type system where i have my digital library with the best possible quality I can get. These silly games they play with protection just puts me off on buying into new formats. I didn't invest in UHD equipment until I was sure backups could be made of all the titles I wanted to buy. I know you went the capture route and that's also good I just don't have the knowledge to go down that path. If they block me from backing things up in the future I very well may abandon UHD as a format and stick with the discs I've purchased so far and call it good. I've zero interest in piracy.

gereral1
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by gereral1 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:09 pm

Im sure most users are like you. I would advise to go makemkv way as its way way easier

SamuriHL
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by SamuriHL » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:16 pm

I agree. I use a couple of tools makeMKV being one of them. Hopefully the AACS 2.1 nonsense can be put behind us at some point when Mike has his solution done. I'd love for us to get to a point like we are with blu-ray where we can just focus on using the program to rip the content and not have to worry about a key file and all that. Mike will get there I'm quite sure.

smartieyoung
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by smartieyoung » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:19 pm

i would agree i would not upload my own movie rips to any websites its just asking for trouble.Its just seems to me like that this is one of the best programs i have gotten.it keeps me off torrent websites and i love having my own copy that i can watch on my computer.AACS 2.1 seems like its a monster.im kind of suprised there's only been one movie studio to use 2.1 i would have thought the studios would have come out with something better. :?: I would't be suprised if the next major protection scheme uses quantium encryption or something that would really take time to crack.

let the cat and mouse games continue

mike admin
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Re: Attention. Ver 2.1 protection out

Post by mike admin » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:16 pm

SamuriHL wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:14 pm
Ewwww, so they're watermarking the decrypted stream on the fly? Yuck.
These are 2 orthogonal things.
First, AACS2 (even 2.0) watermarks video on the fly. I'm not sure if it is always enabled or not. Every player seen so far has watermarking/parsing code for all 3 codecs. This is insane.

The AACS 2.1 works pretty much exactly same way as late BD+ watermarking. Imagine you have an N-bit number that uniquely identifies your player (the number is derieved from AACS2 node id). In FMTS file you have (at least N) "alternative" segments each encoded twice (i.e. red hat or green hat). Each variation is encoded by unique key, so 2xN keys total for a single FMTS file (plus regular default title key). The player cryptographically derives N keys, so for each segment it can only decrypt just one variation, thus encoding bit "one" or "zero". So yes, there are 65536 "cuts" of Patriot and Fury. And there is one single "DeUHD" cut for both.

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