Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

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spl147
Posts: 226
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by spl147 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:10 pm

SamuriHL wrote:If it were a receiver issue the original disc wouldn't play correctly. In any case I am glad you have no issues playing it. I'm not going to spend more time attempting to "convince you" that some of us are seeing issues with these titles.

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I didnt ask you to, i was simply stating i do not, and that it might be a player issue.


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Metallikahn
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by Metallikahn » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:22 pm

It could be a player issue (though if it is it's hard to say when, if ever, a fix is found and implemented) or it could be a makemkv issue causing it. I'm leaning towards Makemkv just based on the fact that playing direct from the disc works perfectly. When Makemkv extracts the movie to the mkv container it should be just like it was on the disc. The fact that these errors occur means something is different. The fact that YOU haven't experienced them, means that it could be problems with makemkv and certain players, requiring a fix on one, or the other, or both.

Extracting the Truehd track without the atmos meta data means we can potentially play the movie with no dropouts (no atmos either, but at least retain the lossless audio for the most part). Whether the receiver is decoding the atmos or not is irrelevant. I've had the same problem on 3 different AVR/processors, 2 of which were atmos capable and 1 of which was THD only.


Just got to thinking... What would happen if you used the THD track from the bluray and remuxed it into the UHD mkv? I know there not guaranteed to be exactly the same and there may be a time alignment issue, but other than that, they're essentially the same. Just looked at the bluray disc for Incredibles 2 and it uses DTSMA. Still... Wonder what would happen if it was Muxed into the UHD track? I might give it a try just for the hell of it and see what happens. lol :mrgreen:

SamuriHL
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by SamuriHL » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:30 pm

There's (currently) no way to extract the ATMOS track as TrueHD without the ATMOS extensions directly. Like I said, I think the people that have tried it are using ffmpeg to strip the ATMOS extensions from the track. Some people were doing this before because they don't have ATMOS capable receivers and wanted to shrink the audio a little bit to save space. I've not personally tried this but some people say it works. I have an ATMOS capable receiver so I have no intention of stripping the ATMOS for my backups. When this was being tested for LAV filters it was reported that playing the disc back directly worked but as soon as it was ripped to an MKV container the issues cropped up. Nev found some TrueHD/ATMOS bitstreaming issues in his code and fixed them which definitely improved the situation. However, the SHIELD still gives me issues as does LAV no matter which software I use to rip it. The other software I use for ripping they confirmed they can repro the issue and are looking into it. If I rip with that, no dropouts but the audio gets out of sync over time. With my MakeMKV rips I get little "pops" where the audio momentarily drops out. Easy to miss unless it gets bad enough to drop the audio completely which happens from time to time. Playing the original disc on my UB820 works fine. Playing he original disc with MC and LAV filters works fine. It's only when I rip to MKV that I run into issues. Meh, I'm not going to worry about it as I know it's being worked on for at least one of the solutions I use for ripping.

LurkerSteve
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by LurkerSteve » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:41 pm

SamuriHL wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:30 pm
There's (currently) no way to extract the ATMOS track as TrueHD without the ATMOS extensions directly. Like I said, I think the people that have tried it are using ffmpeg to strip the ATMOS extensions from the track. Some people were doing this before because they don't have ATMOS capable receivers and wanted to shrink the audio a little bit to save space. I've not personally tried this but some people say it works. I have an ATMOS capable receiver so I have no intention of stripping the ATMOS for my backups. When this was being tested for LAV filters it was reported that playing the disc back directly worked but as soon as it was ripped to an MKV container the issues cropped up. Nev found some TrueHD/ATMOS bitstreaming issues in his code and fixed them which definitely improved the situation. However, the SHIELD still gives me issues as does LAV no matter which software I use to rip it. The other software I use for ripping they confirmed they can repro the issue and are looking into it. If I rip with that, no dropouts but the audio gets out of sync over time. With my MakeMKV rips I get little "pops" where the audio momentarily drops out. Easy to miss unless it gets bad enough to drop the audio completely which happens from time to time. Playing the original disc on my UB820 works fine. Playing he original disc with MC and LAV filters works fine. It's only when I rip to MKV that I run into issues. Meh, I'm not going to worry about it as I know it's being worked on for at least one of the solutions I use for ripping.
Good evening,

So is the problem actually with MakeMKV or is the problem on the player side? I experience the same issues when attempting to playback ATMOS audio on my receiver. Random pops and sometimes, rarely, audio drops out completely. I too am using the NVIDIA Shield which at the time of purchase was the only third-party solution that played back MKV's that supported 7.1 via Plex. I initially thought it was a 7.1 issue but it's only with ATMOS tracks the issue crops up. I do not have an X1S/X1X/UHD Player so I am unable to play back my original disc but I suspect the issue wouldn't exist.

SamuriHL
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by SamuriHL » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:52 pm

LurkerSteve wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:41 pm
Good evening,

So is the problem actually with MakeMKV or is the problem on the player side? I experience the same issues when attempting to playback ATMOS audio on my receiver. Random pops and sometimes, rarely, audio drops out completely. I too am using the NVIDIA Shield which at the time of purchase was the only third-party solution that played back MKV's that supported 7.1 via Plex. I initially thought it was a 7.1 issue but it's only with ATMOS tracks the issue crops up. I do not have an X1S/X1X/UHD Player so I am unable to play back my original disc but I suspect the issue wouldn't exist.
I believe the issue lies with the MKV's that are output by the various tools. However, if you look back a few posts, at least one user has no problem with playing them in KODI on his SHIELD. I have problems playing the MKV no matter what I use for a player. The original plays fine on my HTPC using the same software that I use to play the MKV and also on my UB820 UHD player. In any case, I don't think we KNOW for sure one way or the other what the issue is, but, again, I believe it's a problem with ripping certain ATMOS (mostly Disney) titles to MKV.

ManMower
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by ManMower » Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:32 pm

I also have dropouts in Incredibles 2. There's a dropout in Ralph Breaks the Internet that confuses my player/receiver so badly that I have to stop and restart before audio comes back at all.

The Ralph Breaks the Internet dropout is interesting because it seems to happen exactly on the boundary between 00128.m2ts and 00131.m2ts, and there's also an audible snap when playing in media player classic on a PC without a receiver in the mix at all (software decode, no atmos support).

The theory that it's a problem with seamless branching seems solid, but I think Atmos might be a bit of a red herring.

cappy1
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by cappy1 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:06 pm

This thread has been quiet since late March so I wonder if the problem was resolved and I missed the solution? I still have audio dropouts playing MKV's with Atmos audio, both on my Oppo 203 and Zidoo z9s. The original disk plays with no problem on the Oppo.

I always rip multiple audio formats, so I can switch the problem on and off by selecting either Dolby Atmos or Dolby Digital audio out. As speculated by others, the MKV seems to be the source of the problem. My last rip was on June 22 and the problem is still there

SamuriHL
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by SamuriHL » Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:19 pm

A sample was sent to mike a while back. So he is aware of the problem and has a sample that shows the issue. I don't believe a fix has been put in as of yet.

MRX_BD_07
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by MRX_BD_07 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:40 pm

Hi!
I also have some issues with Atmos in mkv, but I think it´s a bit on the other side. The movie I wanted to play was/is Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.2, another Disney release, and there are some glitches. Dropouts...
On Github (lavfilters - https://github.com/Nevcairiel/LAVFilters/issues/208), I found a post addressing this. It´s a bitrate issue. Most players out there, like Kodi, use some kind of FFmpeg (equivalent) implementation. Unfortunately, FFmpeg does not properly cope with high bitrate TrueHD/Atmos tracks. (an FFmpeg support ticket is already created :wink: ).

How high is the bitrate at those parts were dropouts occur?

Did someone tried "MPV" for playing those Atmos mkv´s? (If there are dropouts you can tell mpv to write a log file, maybe something will be printed there)

SamuriHL
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by SamuriHL » Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:34 pm

Nev (the author of LAV filters) found another way to fix LAV filters for ATMOS. Basically if the WIndows 10 media player can play it, then LAV can, too. By comparing the ATMOS frames from the Windows 10 media player he was able to find and squash some of the bugs in LAV that were causing dropouts on some of the ATMOS tracks. That is an additional issue separate from the Disney ATMOS problem that is inherent in putting these tracks in an MKV container. As I said, Mike knows about the issue and has samples showing it so hopefully he'll come up with a fix.

Tourman
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by Tourman » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:53 am

I'm having fairly consistent audio dropouts on Avengers Endgame starting around the 72min mark. Before that it plays flawlessly.

I was hoping this had been fixed by now. Is this a ripping issue or an MKV issue? Also using nvidia shield as it's the only player I know that can do Atmos over MKV. I wish AppleTV would do Atmos in Plex.

SamuriHL
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Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by SamuriHL » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:27 am

To my knowledge it has not been fixed in makemkv yet. I ripped this one as a backup to a decrypted folder and used clonebd to create the mkv. I have no issues. If you're only processing to mkv and not compressing then clonebd is free to use. Create the decrypted backup folder with makemkv then open that with clonebd as a workaround until this gets fixed in makemkv.

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midnighwatcher
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by midnighwatcher » Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:54 pm

This must be what I experienced last night while watching a 4K rip of Deepwater Horizon, right around the time the rig goes up in flames and the explosion blasts Mark Wahlberg's door open.

SamuriHL
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by SamuriHL » Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:33 pm

Definitely possible. It's more pronounced as an issue on the Disney titles. I'm sure Mike will get this issue fixed at some point. I know he has a sample to work with. I suspect he's rather busy at the moment.

TheShoe
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Re: Ripping Dolby Atmos into MKV

Post by TheShoe » Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:00 pm

SamuriHL wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:49 pm
TheShoe wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:23 pm
the latest lav update fixed all audio drop outs for me and others for atmos tracks.

give it a try.
I have, believe me. I was testing it on the JRiver forum when Nev was fixing it. It does not fix ALL the audio dropouts. It vastly improved the situation, but, with a MakeMKV rip of Incredibles 2 I still get audio drops periodically.
where do you still have dropouts? i don’t recall any but might have missed them... happy to check as i think over at the jriver forums those of us who cared thought the issue resolved

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