Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

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RESET_9999
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by RESET_9999 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:51 am

dotnotbot wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 11:48 pm
I'm assuming X700 has Cinavia and there is no way around it?

nop, no cinavia via USB.
My player is pretty old though, and i never updated the firmware. I dont know about the new one with up to date firmware
Please forgive my English.
Sony x700 ----> Denon AVR ----> LG OLED C8
FIX the x700 DT-DL TS bug with this file

pete19
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:37 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by pete19 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:15 am

dapope wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:12 pm
Very interesting, I would like to know where you learnt this since the public Dolby vision paper doesn't really make mention of this at all. In fact, while it does mention FEL it doesn't actually describe what FEL means. But it only lists profile 7 as 1:1/4 (4:2:0.) and makes no mention of either 12 bit colour or 4:2:2.

Either way, through 12 bit colour (theorized to make a small improvement to gradients when downscaling to 10 bit panel) or higher colour resolution, FEL profile 7 is slightly superior to 8.1.
DV FEL is 12bit 422 delivered as 8bit 444 via RGB tunneling. You read the profile white paper which (only) describes each layer.

lexyz wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:12 pm
pete19 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:39 am
while profile 7 FEL is dual layer resulting in a 12bit 422 signal.
Wow. Hold on :D Looks like you overtheorize a little
p7FEL is 420 as well as p7MEL, or p5, or almost any other video (except some 422 HD sattelite streams)
FEL is more bitdepth only, it doesn't add color resolution
p7FEL 422 is upsampled from 420 by player . Same for regular 420 HDR or SDR
all incorrect. It is like I wrote. Just read up on DV.

FEL is a Full Enhancement Layer (guess where that name comes from ?), all layers (BL or EL) are 420 as that is the Bluray spec, but a FEL (NOT a MEL) contains difference data that when combined brings the signal to 12bit 422. (this is Dolby's true IP in HDR and the one and only reason why DV will win the HDR format war)
shawnc22 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:19 pm
Here's a good read again on FEL v MEL for anyone interested: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=119. I have also never heard of FEL automatically being 422, would like a source for that if it's true.
Guess for the whole reason of that thread on bluray.com.... ? :)

they're listing all the FEL titles so that users know what they'll get when they buy the DV version of the same old movie they've seen already 100 times... FEL in 12bit 422 may be worth the investment.

shawnc22
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by shawnc22 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:07 am

pete19 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:15 am
dapope wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:12 pm
Very interesting, I would like to know where you learnt this since the public Dolby vision paper doesn't really make mention of this at all. In fact, while it does mention FEL it doesn't actually describe what FEL means. But it only lists profile 7 as 1:1/4 (4:2:0.) and makes no mention of either 12 bit colour or 4:2:2.

Either way, through 12 bit colour (theorized to make a small improvement to gradients when downscaling to 10 bit panel) or higher colour resolution, FEL profile 7 is slightly superior to 8.1.
DV FEL is 12bit 422 delivered as 8bit 444 via RGB tunneling. You read the profile white paper which (only) describes each layer.

lexyz wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 2:12 pm
pete19 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 8:39 am
while profile 7 FEL is dual layer resulting in a 12bit 422 signal.
Wow. Hold on :D Looks like you overtheorize a little
p7FEL is 420 as well as p7MEL, or p5, or almost any other video (except some 422 HD sattelite streams)
FEL is more bitdepth only, it doesn't add color resolution
p7FEL 422 is upsampled from 420 by player . Same for regular 420 HDR or SDR
all incorrect. It is like I wrote. Just read up on DV.

FEL is a Full Enhancement Layer (guess where that name comes from ?), all layers (BL or EL) are 420 as that is the Bluray spec, but a FEL (NOT a MEL) contains difference data that when combined brings the signal to 12bit 422. (this is Dolby's true IP in HDR and the one and only reason why DV will win the HDR format war)
shawnc22 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 4:19 pm
Here's a good read again on FEL v MEL for anyone interested: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=119. I have also never heard of FEL automatically being 422, would like a source for that if it's true.
Guess for the whole reason of that thread on bluray.com.... ? :)

they're listing all the FEL titles so that users know what they'll get when they buy the DV version of the same old movie they've seen already 100 times... FEL in 12bit 422 may be worth the investment.
I'm fairly familiar with RGB tunneling and what having a FEL is relative to a base layer (The blu-ray.com link I posted is also not the one with the title listings). Not doubting you, but just wanted to see your source for where it states that the reconstructed picture from an FEL is 12bit 422 instead of 420. It also doesn't help that Dolby seems to have taken the white paper (not the profile description one) off their site.

The diagram on page 8 of this version of the white paper here does indeed state that the end product is 422: https://www.diversifiedvideosolutions.c ... _Paper.pdf

But then again, the same diagram from maybe a different version of the white paper says different:
Image

Also another version of the same diagram also stating that it's not 422:
Image

So unless I'm reading the diagrams wrong somehow, there does seem to be some conflicting information out there, and I'm interested in seeing where you're getting your info from.

quietvoid
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 4:15 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by quietvoid » Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:15 am

420 is not wrong, the patent specs also only mention 12 bit YCbCr 420 reconstructed output.
As for the HDMI transmission, it is detailed as 12 bit YCbCr 422 because the metadata is also transported into the least significant bits.

galarond
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:22 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by galarond » Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:31 am

Hi i have a neewbie problem, i just downloaded a Lotr 4k dolby vision (tv) mp4 file, plays fine in my Lg B6, sound too, the issue is that the movie is in russian!!!! theres any simple way to edit that dolby vision mp4 file to change the russian for the original english? i have the ac3 english file extracted from another copy but man ive tried several programs but i dont lnow what to do...uses mp4box, avimuxer, mkvtoolix, etc, pls help me. im looking for the simplest way possible to do it, took me 3 days to download it now im watching awesome dolby vision with muted aound and subtitles

pete19
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:37 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by pete19 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:18 am

shawnc22 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:07 am
I'm fairly familiar with RGB tunneling and what having a FEL is relative to a base layer (The blu-ray.com link I posted is also not the one with the title listings). Not doubting you, but just wanted to see your source for where it states that the reconstructed picture from an FEL is 12bit 422 instead of 420. It also doesn't help that Dolby seems to have taken the white paper (not the profile description one) off their site.

The diagram on page 8 of this version of the white paper here does indeed state that the end product is 422: https://www.diversifiedvideosolutions.c ... _Paper.pdf

But then again, the same diagram from maybe a different version of the white paper says different:


Also another version of the same diagram also stating that it's not 422:


So unless I'm reading the diagrams wrong somehow, there does seem to be some conflicting information out there, and I'm interested in seeing where you're getting your info from.
I mean the bluray.com link that I posted a while ago for a member here :D

Re 422, it's been stated in various articles for a few years now, incl. in Dolby papers, but they changed their website, hence some of the links don't work.

But, re 422, keep in mind this ONLY applies to dual layer DV FEL titles (NOT MEL), e.g. profile 7 UHD Bluray FEL.

It's possible the diagrams you posted refer to all the gazillion other DV formats that are single layer, hence for streaming, hence will never be 422 (color is always the first parameter to be reduced/compressed in streaming or OTA architectures - they can't afford 422, they don't even stream proper 4K, it's garbage). Re the last diagram that says "dual layer", profile 4 is also dual layer - maybe this is the diagram for that.

I guarantee you it's 12bit 422 for DV profile 7 FEL, as that is the master being done in the post prod facility and/or studio when they do a DV master for a disc release. Again, the master is 12bit 422 and the whole point of DV FEL profile 7 is that you can re-create the exact same signal at home (and if you had a US$40,000 DV mastering display you'd watch the exact same presentation).

And btw, 12bit 422 has the exact same data rate as 8bit RGB (444), but they had to use 8bit RGB tunneling because of HDMI spec etc

For profile 7 dual layer MEL etc they pad the 12bit container as it effectively only contains 10bit 420 data.

This is the whole reason we want/collect FEL titles on DISC (--> profile 7), not crap streaming (single layer, compressed garbage) DV content (for content that is re-released, hence a new version of the same old title).
And I only use tv-led DV.
This is the best you can get today.

For Mando, we gotta take the streaming version :)

Wanderlust3K
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:06 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by Wanderlust3K » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:35 am

dapope wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 12:22 am
For anyone with an LG CX, the new firmware update purportedly allows profile 7 files to be played in the internal player. I'm unable to test this myself for a few weeks since I'm staying away from home. Previously the LG CX could only play 8.1 files. Good news if true because, unlike 8.1, profile 7 is dual layer and I believe supports the 12 bit colour in FEL titles. It could also make it far easier to play DV files if we can just rip them (albiet there still needs to be an audio conversion) rather than also having to do the Yosupe 8.1.bat conversion.
Whats the firmware version?

Will try to update later, if that is true then a BIG THANKS to LG.

pete19
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:37 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by pete19 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:38 pm

Wanderlust3K wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:35 am
Whats the firmware version?

Will try to update later, if that is true then a BIG THANKS to LG.
it's latest stable 3.21.09, you gotta wait until hits US and EU, but it is already available in Korea (donwloable from Korean website)

lexyz
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 5:32 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by lexyz » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:51 pm

pete19 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:18 am
I guarantee you it's 12bit 422 for DV profile 7 FEL
Link your source please
Bravia XF90, Shield TV Pro'19, UBP-X700

Will2106
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:34 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by Will2106 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:01 pm

Question regarding the Sony X700 and profile 7 playback from file.

1) The best option is dual track single layer 7.06 (green screen when stop) or new single track dual layer 7.06 bl+el+rpu (no green screen when stop)? or are the same...

2) How to mux a mkv dual layer 7.06 in m2ts working file on X700? i have demos working ok but when i mux with tsmuxer (differents versions) always fail...

Thanks, sorry for my english.

glc650
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:25 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by glc650 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:04 pm

RESET_9999 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:06 pm
glc650 wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 9:17 pm
I've seen conflicting posts on here so I just wanted to verify. Does the X700 play back profile 7 from BDMV or mt2s correctly (same as it would from a disc) or not?
yes, same quality as the disc.
And is that from LAN (DLNA?) or just USB drives?

RESET_9999
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by RESET_9999 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:05 pm

Will2106 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:01 pm
Question regarding the Sony X700 and profile 7 playback from file.

1) The best option is dual track single layer 7.06 (green screen when stop) or new single track dual layer 7.06 bl+el+rpu (no green screen when stop)? or are the same...

2) How to mux a mkv dual layer 7.06 in m2ts working file on X700? i have demos working ok but when i mux with tsmuxer (differents versions) always fail...

Thanks, sorry for my english.
1- I prefer dual track dual layer p7 because every movie works and creating the TS/m2ts files is much faster than any other method. But yeah, there's the green screen bug when you stop playback.
2- you create the single track dual layer with Makemkv or yusesope tool, and then you remux to TS or M2TS with the latest tsmuxer.
glc650 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:04 pm
And is that from LAN (DLNA?) or just USB drives?
this player got only a 100mbps ethernet port so it's not fast enough for high bitrate movies.
Please forgive my English.
Sony x700 ----> Denon AVR ----> LG OLED C8
FIX the x700 DT-DL TS bug with this file

Pacer
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:09 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by Pacer » Mon Dec 21, 2020 5:28 pm

Hello everyone,

first I wanted to say a big THANK YOU to everyone so dedicated to get the DV playback riddle solved, first of all to yusesope, whose tool I've tried to use.

I've just had one UDH Bluray Disc (MI: Fallout), which I tried to get to run in DV after ripping it. With the help of yusesope's tool I was able to create an mp4 file which my LG OLED65GX9LA liked to play. I used the software and procedure described on p199 in this forum:

- ffmpeg to demux from BD m2ts file
- MUX_AND_CONVERT_TO_PROFILE_81.bat
- mp4muxer to get an .mp4 file

The file triggered DV on my LG TV, but I am not sure if it displayed the content correctly. That's why I would like to ask you more experienced people to take a look at my photo comparison (DSLR in manual mode). From left to right you see:

- MKV ripped with 1.15.3 from BD disc, played on my HiMedia Q10 Pro (which plays the file only in HDR10)
- same file, but played from my LG OLED65GX9LA with internal player via DLNA (which also plays it in HDR10)
- mp4-File created with the above procedure, played from my LG's internal player with active DV
Bildschirmfoto 2020-12-12 um 19.55.51.jpg
Bildschirmfoto 2020-12-12 um 19.55.51.jpg (251.13 KiB) Viewed 2579 times
To me, the colors look quite different compared to the HDR10 variants of the movie. I do not have a hardware BD-UHD player to see how the movie would look like when played from there :-/

What are your thoughts on this?
In my expectation the colors should not differ between HDR10 and DV, right?

pete19
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:37 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by pete19 » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:24 pm

lexyz wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:51 pm
Link your source please
sorry, it's been years since this was released. don't have a source at hand, simply google... you'll find posts, blogs etc...

galarond
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:22 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by galarond » Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:10 am

galarond wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:31 am
Hi i have a neewbie problem, i just downloaded a Lotr 4k dolby vision (tv) mp4 file, plays fine in my Lg B6, sound too, the issue is that the movie is in russian!!!! theres any simple way to edit that dolby vision mp4 file to change the russian for the original english? i have the ac3 english file extracted from another copy but man ive tried several programs but i dont lnow what to do...uses mp4box, avimuxer, mkvtoolix, etc, pls help me. im looking for the simplest way possible to do it, took me 3 days to download it now im watching awesome dolby vision with muted aound and subtitles
Used mp4box to add a track and worked now i tried to put that second track as default, used ffmpeg and worked but the result was a hdr file, any work around?

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