Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

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shawnc22
Posts: 589
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by shawnc22 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:16 am

MastaG wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:12 am
So which players are capable of playing FEL remuxes from network sources (Plex/Emby/SMB), e.g. the full deal retaining the 12bit 4000nits final picture like when playing the original disc?
e.g. remuxed into a TS or MKV container so I can add a high def audio track?
From network? The oppo and that's it.

pete19
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:37 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by pete19 » Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:40 am

MastaG wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:12 am
So which players are capable of playing FEL remuxes from network sources (Plex/Emby/SMB), e.g. the full deal retaining the 12bit 4000nits final picture like when playing the original disc?
e.g. remuxed into a TS or MKV container so I can add a high def audio track?
Oppo with (free) Russian firmware hack can do all of that. And you can mux to m2ts or BDMV folder structure and it'll play it (and keep HD audio). As long as you don't trim the movie, tsmuxer creates a perfect DV mux.

galarond
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2020 7:22 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by galarond » Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:39 am

Ok, so i give up after all my attempts, like 20 programs, cmd lines, etc.
Ive read at least 100 pages of this topic, but any kind soul can explain me in detail how i create a dual layer dolby vision mp4 with ac3 audio from the bluray backup but that works with the Lg b6?
Ive read too that the 2016 series of lg oleds cant read dual layer dolby vision but thats not true, i have a hobbit mp4 file downloaded from torrent that displays as dolby vision in my lg b6, when i use mp4box to demuxe the mp4 i see 3 files .hev1 .dvhe and ac3. files inside the mp4, so what i need to do to get this thing?Of course i tried the tsmux, mp4muxer with profile 7 comand line and that mp4 is only playable on my pc.
Thank you in advance

aboulfad
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:51 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by aboulfad » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:29 am

Hi,
Can someone elaborate on yusesope´s comment copied below. Would (and how) DV streaming providers (NF, Apple) have to deal with the lack of EL in a DV profile 5 and potential « issues » such as chromatic aberrations. Or are those issues a side effect of yusesope method for creating a single track single layer DV media ?

One point that seems not so obvious, is that a Profile 5 can make use of dynamic metadata carried in the RPU- Reference Processing Unit, what is this? Thank you.
If instead I choose to play my files with the profiles dvhe.05 and dvhe.08 ..., the hardware decoder will try to process the Base Layer (BL) and to improve it through RPU metadata by discarding the EL layer.
however, the Base Layer is non-standard (it has a different color space than the IPTPQc2/IPT one) as extracted from a Bluray disk.
It should appear better than an HDR stream (since metadata is dynamic and non-static) but will not reach its maximum splendor due to the lack of data contained in the EL layer.
The lack of this information, however, could lead, in some cases, to evident chromatic aberrations.
[Oppo UDP-203, ATV 4K] —> Anthem MRX-720 —> LG OLED65E7P

aboulfad
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:51 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by aboulfad » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:56 am

After processing some old broken links I only found this excerpt from THIS on RPU and EL- it is unclear what are the differences in metadata between RPU vs EL ?

When encoded using the dual-layer scheme, the Dolby Vision stream consists of a base layer, an enhancement layer, and a reference processing unit:
...
• The enhancement layer carries the color and brightness differences between the graded source (that is, a source that is graded to Dolby Vision standards) and base-layer version of the source.
• The reference processing unit is a special Network Abstraction Layer (NAL) unit that contains the Dolby Vision metadata. It is also a complete Dolby Vision metadata access unit for the current picture.
...
[Oppo UDP-203, ATV 4K] —> Anthem MRX-720 —> LG OLED65E7P

rocsen
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:01 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by rocsen » Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:44 pm

RESET_9999 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:05 pm
Will2106 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:01 pm
Question regarding the Sony X700 and profile 7 playback from file.

1) The best option is dual track single layer 7.06 (green screen when stop) or new single track dual layer 7.06 bl+el+rpu (no green screen when stop)? or are the same...

2) How to mux a mkv dual layer 7.06 in m2ts working file on X700? i have demos working ok but when i mux with tsmuxer (differents versions) always fail...

Thanks, sorry for my english.
1- I prefer dual track dual layer p7 because every movie works and creating the TS/m2ts files is much faster than any other method. But yeah, there's the green screen bug when you stop playback.
2- you create the single track dual layer with Makemkv or yusesope tool, and then you remux to TS or M2TS with the latest tsmuxer.
glc650 wrote:
Mon Dec 21, 2020 1:04 pm
And is that from LAN (DLNA?) or just USB drives?
this player got only a 100mbps ethernet port so it's not fast enough for high bitrate movies.
I find if I copy the original m2ts from the BD rip, it plays perfectly fine on the X700 without the green screen bug.

RESET_9999
Posts: 391
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by RESET_9999 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:42 pm

rocsen wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:44 pm

I find if I copy the original m2ts from the BD rip, it plays perfectly fine on the X700 without the green screen bug.
Yep, but that is fake DV. Press ''display'' on your remote and you will see that it say ''HDR'' only instead of ''Dolby Vision HDR'' .
To get real DV on the x700, you have to remux the original m2ts with tsMuxer or the mp4muxer.
galarond wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:39 am
Ok, so i give up after all my attempts, like 20 programs, cmd lines, etc.
Ive read at least 100 pages of this topic, but any kind soul can explain me in detail how i create a dual layer dolby vision mp4 with ac3 audio from the bluray backup but that works with the Lg b6?
Ive read too that the 2016 series of lg oleds cant read dual layer dolby vision but thats not true, i have a hobbit mp4 file downloaded from torrent that displays as dolby vision in my lg b6, when i use mp4box to demuxe the mp4 i see 3 files .hev1 .dvhe and ac3. files inside the mp4, so what i need to do to get this thing?Of course i tried the tsmux, mp4muxer with profile 7 comand line and that mp4 is only playable on my pc.
Thank you in advance
the 2016 series LG oled have issues with some metadata that causes a green screen.
btw, if you don't want to mess with the cmd-line, and all you want is dual layer DV + ac3, you can use the @Grencola tool:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php? ... ost1868184
Please forgive my English.
Sony x700 ----> Denon AVR ----> LG OLED C8
FIX the x700 DT-DL TS bug with this file

Manixx2020beyound
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:19 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by Manixx2020beyound » Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:39 pm

pete19 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:03 am
quietvoid wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:49 pm
420 is not wrong, the patent specs also only mention 12 bit YCbCr 420 reconstructed output.
As for the HDMI transmission, it is detailed as 12 bit YCbCr 422 because the metadata is also transported into the least significant bits.
first off, nobody said 420 is "wrong" - that is your wording. 420 simply has less color resolution, hence 422 is more desirable.

Second, both STD and LLDV output a 12bit 422 signal yet only STD contains in addition the dynamic metadata because it's tv-led. so the player-led stream (already DV decoded) which also contains 12bit 422 signal requires less bandwidth, hence it provides low latency...

again, BOTH DV stream types contain 12bit 422 signal (because that's the Dolby spec), yet LLDV has less data than the other... only STD carries metadata in the stream, not LLDV.... hence your 2nd statement is also wrong.

to recap:
all DV streams are 12 bit 422.
only tv-led contains the full dynamic metadata, so full stream requirements, hence RGB tunneling in 8bit float container is used.
player-led requires less bandwidth because it contains less data (still 12 bit 422 signal).
MEL is also 12 bit 422 but only contains a 10bit 420 signal, padded.

and to stress this part:
quietvoid wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:49 pm
because the metadata is also transported into the least significant bits.
you make it sound like that "explains" a 12bit 420 final output. no, the metadata allows to reconstruct the full 12bit 422 master, which is why it is a 12bit 422 signal.

if final output was 12bit 420 (so EL only contains luminance, Y difference) for FEL STD, they wouldn't need a 12 bit 422 stream, they'd use a 12bit 420 stream. Metadata is the mere difference, it doesn't need "extra" space on top of the difference, especially since it's encoded as well.
Yes but
LLDV device processing,
Would still use the Fel data within the 12bit stream/device to produce the extra bits intended in final 12bit output.
LLDV still uses all the dv meta
(Intended to cut the signal meta transfer time between device & uhdtv ) atualize visual monitor processing time cause latency.
I say this because we can play a fel real uhd disc in LLDV is that producing a less imperfect image than the dv rgb8 FEL ?sending the meta I’m not sure 100% on that part of the equation.
Some do believe computation processing is best left to devices than the uhdtv.
So the real question is, is device processing better than uhd tv which each UhDtv tone maps differently producing different doblyvision picture baced on tv limitations
But is does make sense why Xbox won’t offer regular dv no good for gaming & we could see why sending dv dynamic meta rgb8 while playing a high intensity doblyvision game u could just visualize the laggg lol

shawnc22
Posts: 589
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by shawnc22 » Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:03 pm

aboulfad wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:29 am
Hi,
Can someone elaborate on yusesope´s comment copied below. Would (and how) DV streaming providers (NF, Apple) have to deal with the lack of EL in a DV profile 5 and potential « issues » such as chromatic aberrations. Or are those issues a side effect of yusesope method for creating a single track single layer DV media ?

One point that seems not so obvious, is that a Profile 5 can make use of dynamic metadata carried in the RPU- Reference Processing Unit, what is this? Thank you.
If instead I choose to play my files with the profiles dvhe.05 and dvhe.08 ..., the hardware decoder will try to process the Base Layer (BL) and to improve it through RPU metadata by discarding the EL layer.
however, the Base Layer is non-standard (it has a different color space than the IPTPQc2/IPT one) as extracted from a Bluray disk.
It should appear better than an HDR stream (since metadata is dynamic and non-static) but will not reach its maximum splendor due to the lack of data contained in the EL layer.
The lack of this information, however, could lead, in some cases, to evident chromatic aberrations.
When you’re doing conversions from a UHD disc to single layer, you’re going to lose data (neglible in MEL). There is currently not a lossless way from converting from double to single layer where the info in the EL is reencoded into the BL; any info in the EL is just being discarded. The issue complicates when you further force the single-layer product to profile 5. Original profile 5 videos are encoded in a different colorspace than UHD discs, and the current available conversion process is not doing any colorspace conversions. When a player encounters a converted profile 5 video, it will play it in the p5 (IPTPQc2) colorspace, but the file is still encoded in the original UHD profile 7 colorspace— leading to potential chromatic abberations. Streaming services don’t have this issue simply because their content is encoded in profile 5 to begin with. The BL in these content is completely different than the one found on UHD discs. For more reading on BLs, ELs, RPUs, and anything DV/HDR related, I would start here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... ostcount=4.

aboulfad
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:51 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by aboulfad » Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:24 pm

shawnc22 wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:03 pm
When you’re doing conversions from a UHD disc to single layer, you’re going to lose data (neglible in MEL). ... The issue complicates when you further force the single-layer product to profile 5. Original profile 5 videos are encoded in a different colorspace than UHD discs, and the current available conversion process is not doing any colorspace conversions. When a player encounters a converted profile 5 video, it will play it in the p5 (IPTPQc2) colorspace, but the file is still encoded in the original UHD profile 7 colorspace— leading to potential chromatic abberations. Streaming services don’t have this issue simply because their content is encoded in profile 5 to begin with. The BL in these content is completely different than the one found on UHD discs. For more reading on BLs, ELs, RPUs, and anything DV/HDR related, I would start here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... ostcount=4.
Hi, thank you ! in summary - Mode 2 of yusesope's tool is NOT doing a colorspace conversion from UHD P7 to P5, hence the potential artefacts. So what do we end up with in terms of pic quality for a single track single layer (STSL) P5 processed from an original UHD P7 ? (which is the only option for Infuse Pro->ATV4k users)

I have been trying to disseminate differences between the media shared by yusesope in THIS post on my LG OLED65E7P (via usb3) and I find it hard to find some (comparing STSL P5 with STDL P7 on my TV).

Once I receive my gear, I will rip some DV movies that I also have on ATV4k and "try" to compare the PQ: ATV original P5 vs (UHD P7 -> Mode 2 - STSL P5). It seems though that the exercise of ripping UHD to eventually stream them to ATV4K is probably inferior in PQ but I wanted to have control on the audio part.
[Oppo UDP-203, ATV 4K] —> Anthem MRX-720 —> LG OLED65E7P

rocsen
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:01 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by rocsen » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:06 pm

RESET_9999 wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 2:42 pm
rocsen wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 1:44 pm

I find if I copy the original m2ts from the BD rip, it plays perfectly fine on the X700 without the green screen bug.
Yep, but that is fake DV. Press ''display'' on your remote and you will see that it say ''HDR'' only instead of ''Dolby Vision HDR'' .
To get real DV on the x700, you have to remux the original m2ts with tsMuxer or the mp4muxer.

I see it now, thanks for pointing that out!

mulucy
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:08 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by mulucy » Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:15 am

aboulfad wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:24 pm
shawnc22 wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:03 pm
When you’re doing conversions from a UHD disc to single layer, you’re going to lose data (neglible in MEL). ... The issue complicates when you further force the single-layer product to profile 5. Original profile 5 videos are encoded in a different colorspace than UHD discs, and the current available conversion process is not doing any colorspace conversions. When a player encounters a converted profile 5 video, it will play it in the p5 (IPTPQc2) colorspace, but the file is still encoded in the original UHD profile 7 colorspace— leading to potential chromatic abberations. Streaming services don’t have this issue simply because their content is encoded in profile 5 to begin with. The BL in these content is completely different than the one found on UHD discs. For more reading on BLs, ELs, RPUs, and anything DV/HDR related, I would start here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... ostcount=4.
Hi, thank you ! in summary - Mode 2 of yusesope's tool is NOT doing a colorspace conversion from UHD P7 to P5, hence the potential artefacts. So what do we end up with in terms of pic quality for a single track single layer (STSL) P5 processed from an original UHD P7 ? (which is the only option for Infuse Pro->ATV4k users)

I have been trying to disseminate differences between the media shared by yusesope in THIS post on my LG OLED65E7P (via usb3) and I find it hard to find some (comparing STSL P5 with STDL P7 on my TV).

Once I receive my gear, I will rip some DV movies that I also have on ATV4k and "try" to compare the PQ: ATV original P5 vs (UHD P7 -> Mode 2 - STSL P5). It seems though that the exercise of ripping UHD to eventually stream them to ATV4K is probably inferior in PQ but I wanted to have control on the audio part.
Profile 5 created from UHD disks with Yusecope's tools is still better than HDR10 BL. It's more like HDR10+ with dynamic metadata with adjusted scene-by-scene brightness. However, you are not getting the correct color space ( it does not mean the picture is messed up ). With Profile 5 created from UHD disc, you are viewing the best picture possible on your Apple TV 4K with Infuse Pro and plus the convenience of it. I also own the Sony X700 and sometimes watch movies with Profile 7 FEL if it's available. Plus, own a Fire TV 4k Cube/Stick. The ladder is capable of playing Profile 8/7 MEL with correct color space created with Yusecope's tools.

My choice goes to Fire TV if a disk encoded with MEL only and if it has FEL, I go with Sony X700. Again, I still don't mind using "Profile 5 " on my Apple TV 4K since I like the Infuse Pro.

pete19
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:37 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by pete19 » Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:36 am

Manixx2020beyound wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:39 pm
I say this because we can play a fel real uhd disc in LLDV is that producing a less imperfect image than the dv rgb8 FEL ?sending the meta
I’m not sure 100% on that part of the equation.
there is no DV metadata being sent with LLDV. The metadata was already used by the device to create the DV image.
Manixx2020beyound wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:39 pm
Some do believe computation processing is best left to devices than the uhdtv.
So the real question is, is device processing better than uhd tv which each UhDtv tone maps differently producing different doblyvision picture baced on tv limitations
best picture will be tv-led, hence letting a full DV capable TV create the DV image. For LLDV, the player has to guess some of the many parameters hence image will be less correct.

aboulfad
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:51 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by aboulfad » Fri Dec 25, 2020 5:06 am

mulucy wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 12:15 am
Profile 5 created from UHD disks with Yusecope's tools is still better than HDR10 BL. It's more like HDR10+ with dynamic metadata with adjusted scene-by-scene brightness. However, you are not getting the correct color space ( it does not mean the picture is messed up ). With Profile 5 created from UHD disc, you are viewing the best picture possible on your Apple TV 4K with Infuse Pro and plus the convenience of it. I also own the Sony X700 and sometimes watch movies with Profile 7 FEL if it's available. Plus, own a Fire TV 4k Cube/Stick. The ladder is capable of playing Profile 8/7 MEL with correct color space created with Yusecope's tools.

My choice goes to Fire TV if a disk encoded with MEL only and if it has FEL, I go with Sony X700. Again, I still don't mind using "Profile 5 " on my Apple TV 4K since I like the Infuse Pro.
Santa delivered ahead of time an Asus BW16-D1HT, I am now encouraged to attempt few rips and processing to P5 STSL. The best device with the best PQ remains our trusted Oppo UDP-203+UHD discs :) I also find Infuse Pro fun and convenient. thank you for the feedback.
[Oppo UDP-203, ATV 4K] —> Anthem MRX-720 —> LG OLED65E7P

cipher
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:16 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by cipher » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:34 am

pete19 wrote:
Fri Dec 25, 2020 1:36 am
there is no DV metadata being sent with LLDV. The metadata was already used by the device to create the DV image.

best picture will be tv-led, hence letting a full DV capable TV create the DV image. For LLDV, the player has to guess some of the many parameters hence image will be less correct.
Lots of interesting info over the past few pages and I'm trying to catch-up. Does this mean that even if the Shield fixes their color issues with DV content, the DV stream still won't be as accurate as TV led DV?

Also, what exactly is TV-led DV and how do you achieve this on an LG OLED? For the many of us using the Plex ecosystem is there any client that offers this possibility?

Finally, does this LLDV vs TV-led DV difference also extend to other HDR variants like HDR-10?

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