Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

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shawnc22
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by shawnc22 » Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:11 pm

cipher wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:53 pm
Any idea if the new software clients from Plex/Kodi etc will allow us to select HDR10 instead of DV for certain titles? I'm thinking of cases where there was a poor implementation of DV and the HDR10 layer does a better job with the video. Yes, most TV's come with the option to turn Dolby Vision On/Off, but I would prefer something a bit more granular.

Hopefully, Plex and other software players can add a new "HDR" Setting that allows one to select between the various HDR layers available in a video file similar to how we can currently select Audio/Subtitle tracks.
I think on the Shield, you can add Dolby Vision as a shortcut toggle to the side menu.

DaveBinM
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:33 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by DaveBinM » Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:45 am

steffenmanden wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:52 am
https://forums.plex.tv/t/feature-reques ... /576028/52


Plex is just waiting for test material! pretty sure they new spec will move fast :-)
As I said in the Plex forums, it just means we'll be able to look at it. Really just waiting on being able to get a sample at the moment. Hence my post here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=22513
Last edited by DaveBinM on Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

DaveBinM
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:33 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by DaveBinM » Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:47 am

cipher wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:53 pm
Any idea if the new software clients from Plex/Kodi etc will allow us to select HDR10 instead of DV for certain titles? I'm thinking of cases where there was a poor implementation of DV and the HDR10 layer does a better job with the video. Yes, most TV's come with the option to turn Dolby Vision On/Off, but I would prefer something a bit more granular.

Hopefully, Plex and other software players can add a new "HDR" Setting that allows one to select between the various HDR layers available in a video file similar to how we can currently select Audio/Subtitle tracks.
Until Plex / Kodi can have a look at the files and determine what's possible to do, it's hard to say. A good example of a "poor" DV title is Spider-Man: Homecoming, where the DV layer exists, but is static throughout the entire film, and literally the only thing it does is trigger the DV mode on your TV. Otherwise, it's the same as HDR10. However, I don't foresee the ability to select multiple video tracks being offered.

shawnc22
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by shawnc22 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:02 am

DaveBinM wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:47 am
Until Plex / Kodi can have a look at the files and determine what's possible to do, it's hard to say. A good example of a "poor" DV title is Spider-Man: Homecoming, where the DV layer exists, but is static throughout the entire film, and literally the only thing it does is trigger the DV mode on your TV. Otherwise, it's the same as HDR10. However, I don't foresee the ability to select multiple video tracks being offered.
Good to have you on here Dave! I'm not sure if you're allowed to say, but I was wondering if Plex underneath really looks at the DV profile to determine how to play back a file? From the exoplayer logs, it seems like as long as a DV stream is detected, it gets passed along to the hardware decoder. For instance in a profile 6 BL+EL+RPU stream that's supposedly deprecated and not supported, it still triggers dolby vision and plays like a supported profile 4 file. The only difference is that in the logs there is no mention of the dvhe.06.0x codec as opposed to the dvhe.04.0x codec that is listed when playing back a profile 4 video.

box4m
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:23 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by box4m » Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:17 am

shawnc22 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:27 pm
box4m wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:43 pm
i guess us shieldusers wont benefit from this new makemkv since its profile 7 dual layer, or am i missing something?
shawnc22 wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:29 pm

box4m wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:32 pm
something i thought about, what profile will makemkv demux/bl+el+rpu be? it will contain EL and not be profile 5 i guess
https://makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... 705#p91896
Might want to have another read
i dont understand why its been said that shield supports dual layer DV, i never got it to work, thought it was a dead topic and that its a nogo, ill give it more tries.
"The Shield has confirmed support for dual layer profile 4" - like i said had no idea

box4m
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:23 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by box4m » Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:38 pm

box4m wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:03 pm
Is profile 5 & 8 regarded as "worse" because EL is stripped?
Anyone with knowledge can fillin please?

shawnc22
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by shawnc22 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:40 pm

box4m wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:38 pm
box4m wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:03 pm
Is profile 5 & 8 regarded as "worse" because EL is stripped?
Anyone with knowledge can fillin please?
If you're going from a FEL UHD to single layer, then yes, because you're essentially discarding additional data that is used to reconstruct the 12 bit picture. But if you're talking about comparing FEL vs MEL/Single layer DV, then it's a bit more complicated. See here:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php? ... tcount=119

cipher
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:16 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by cipher » Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:55 am

DaveBinM wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:47 am
cipher wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:53 pm
Any idea if the new software clients from Plex/Kodi etc will allow us to select HDR10 instead of DV for certain titles? I'm thinking of cases where there was a poor implementation of DV and the HDR10 layer does a better job with the video. Yes, most TV's come with the option to turn Dolby Vision On/Off, but I would prefer something a bit more granular.

Hopefully, Plex and other software players can add a new "HDR" Setting that allows one to select between the various HDR layers available in a video file similar to how we can currently select Audio/Subtitle tracks.
Until Plex / Kodi can have a look at the files and determine what's possible to do, it's hard to say. A good example of a "poor" DV title is Spider-Man: Homecoming, where the DV layer exists, but is static throughout the entire film, and literally the only thing it does is trigger the DV mode on your TV. Otherwise, it's the same as HDR10. However, I don't foresee the ability to select multiple video tracks being offered.
Thanks for the reply, DaveBinM. I'm hoping the highlighted part isn't true as I imagine it would be a relatively simple task to offer DV/HDR10 setting toggle. Plex already offers setting support for all embedded MKV tracks so it would make sense to do the same when there are effectively two HDR video streams available. The main issue I could see would be HDR support especially for those sets that don't offer DV and only offer HDR10.

Also, a global HDR setting for the default preference (similar to global defaults for Audio/subtitle Language) followed by the ability to override it on a per title basis would be ideal. Providing DV support is definitely the main priority, but adding this configuration capability, even if it comes later on, would be extremely helpful.

DaveBinM
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:33 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by DaveBinM » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:27 pm

shawnc22 wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:02 am
DaveBinM wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:47 am
Until Plex / Kodi can have a look at the files and determine what's possible to do, it's hard to say. A good example of a "poor" DV title is Spider-Man: Homecoming, where the DV layer exists, but is static throughout the entire film, and literally the only thing it does is trigger the DV mode on your TV. Otherwise, it's the same as HDR10. However, I don't foresee the ability to select multiple video tracks being offered.
Good to have you on here Dave! I'm not sure if you're allowed to say, but I was wondering if Plex underneath really looks at the DV profile to determine how to play back a file? From the exoplayer logs, it seems like as long as a DV stream is detected, it gets passed along to the hardware decoder. For instance in a profile 6 BL+EL+RPU stream that's supposedly deprecated and not supported, it still triggers dolby vision and plays like a supported profile 4 file. The only difference is that in the logs there is no mention of the dvhe.06.0x codec as opposed to the dvhe.04.0x codec that is listed when playing back a profile 4 video.
To be clear, I'm not on here in any official Plex capacity, just as a personal user. Both my MakeMKV and Plex forum accounts (which share a username) pre-date my employment with Plex. I can't say for certain if/when it'll be implemented or the exact specifics, but I know for other media that has multiple video tracks (as I believe some of the multi-angle videos do) we don't offer video track selection.

DaveBinM
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:33 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by DaveBinM » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:33 pm

cipher wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:55 am
DaveBinM wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:47 am
cipher wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:53 pm
Any idea if the new software clients from Plex/Kodi etc will allow us to select HDR10 instead of DV for certain titles? I'm thinking of cases where there was a poor implementation of DV and the HDR10 layer does a better job with the video. Yes, most TV's come with the option to turn Dolby Vision On/Off, but I would prefer something a bit more granular.

Hopefully, Plex and other software players can add a new "HDR" Setting that allows one to select between the various HDR layers available in a video file similar to how we can currently select Audio/Subtitle tracks.
Until Plex / Kodi can have a look at the files and determine what's possible to do, it's hard to say. A good example of a "poor" DV title is Spider-Man: Homecoming, where the DV layer exists, but is static throughout the entire film, and literally the only thing it does is trigger the DV mode on your TV. Otherwise, it's the same as HDR10. However, I don't foresee the ability to select multiple video tracks being offered.
Thanks for the reply, DaveBinM. I'm hoping the highlighted part isn't true as I imagine it would be a relatively simple task to offer DV/HDR10 setting toggle. Plex already offers setting support for all embedded MKV tracks so it would make sense to do the same when there are effectively two HDR video streams available. The main issue I could see would be HDR support especially for those sets that don't offer DV and only offer HDR10.

Also, a global HDR setting for the default preference (similar to global defaults for Audio/subtitle Language) followed by the ability to override it on a per title basis would be ideal. Providing DV support is definitely the main priority, but adding this configuration capability, even if it comes later on, would be extremely helpful.
As mentioned in my last post, I'm only on here as a personal user, nothing official (I just happen to use the same username). That sort of stuff is well outside what I personally do, and a lot of it depends on how the files end up being structured, and what makes sense to offer. We don't support all embedded MKV tracks (we ignore the "default" flag, for example), and for multi-angle videos, we only support one video stream (to the best of my knowledge). So I'm happy to help provide information from my knowledge and experience, but I'm not here in any official capacity.

DaveBinM
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:33 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by DaveBinM » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:34 pm

box4m wrote:
Fri Jun 26, 2020 11:17 am
shawnc22 wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:27 pm
box4m wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 1:43 pm
i guess us shieldusers wont benefit from this new makemkv since its profile 7 dual layer, or am i missing something?
Might want to have another read
i dont understand why its been said that shield supports dual layer DV, i never got it to work, thought it was a dead topic and that its a nogo, ill give it more tries.
"The Shield has confirmed support for dual layer profile 4" - like i said had no idea
At least from my knowledge, it does not support dual layer DV

shawnc22
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by shawnc22 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:42 am

DaveBinM wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:34 pm
At least from my knowledge, it does not support dual layer DV
As far as the Shield is concerned, there is definitely no support for dual track dual layer DV. There has been confirmation from Nvidia devs, though, for single track dual layer (BL+EL+RPU) when the EL is a MEL. FEL titles also play without issue, but just no idea if it's being played correctly. It's a bit difficult to do any picture comparisons because of the current color issues that the Shield has with DV.

SamuriHL
Posts: 1619
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by SamuriHL » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:10 am

If only nVidia had a beta build that could fix that issue... :D Hopefully they release it sometime in the next millennia or two. :D

Darthjipsu
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:10 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by Darthjipsu » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:28 pm

Hello guys.
I'm reading this topic for a while, but never posted before.
I'm sorry if my english is not perfect, it's not my native tongue.

I read about color issues with Nvidia Shield pro and Dolby Vision.
I just received my new TV with DV support (Philips OLED934) so I decided to conduct some test with DV.

So here are my results :

Philips O934 vs Nvidia Shield Pro : https://slow.pics/c/NVssdh3m (12 Pictures)
Xbox One X vs Nvidia Shield Pro : https://slow.pics/c/UcMwDqeF (13 Pictures)

I'm not a professional but I don't see much difference between Shield and TV or Xbox, even in Magenta/Red colors that seems to be problematic.
Feel free to discuss about it, and ask me some questions

RESET_9999
Posts: 240
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by RESET_9999 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:47 pm

Darthjipsu wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:28 pm
Hello guys.
I'm reading this topic for a while, but never posted before.
I'm sorry if my english is not perfect, it's not my native tongue.

I read about color issues with Nvidia Shield pro and Dolby Vision.
I just received my new TV with DV support (Philips OLED934) so I decided to conduct some test with DV.

So here are my results :

Philips O934 vs Nvidia Shield Pro : https://slow.pics/c/NVssdh3m (12 Pictures)
Xbox One X vs Nvidia Shield Pro : https://slow.pics/c/UcMwDqeF (13 Pictures)

I'm not a professional but I don't see much difference between Shield and TV or Xbox, even in Magenta/Red colors that seems to be problematic.
Feel free to discuss about it, and ask me some questions
That's probably because you are getting LLDV (12bit 422 DV).
the color issue is with the 8bit RGB DV signal.

I have a friend with a Vertex that can force LLDV and he confirmed that he's not seeing the issue when forcing LLDV.
Please forgive my weak English.
Sony x700 ----> Denon AVR ----> LG OLED C8

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