Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

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MartyMcNuts
Posts: 1016
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:45 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by MartyMcNuts » Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:48 am

Larrikin wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:46 am
MartyMcNuts wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:34 am


Stream #0:0: Audio: truehd, 48000 Hz, 5.1, s16, 1536 kb/s

When I checked the file out in mediainfo, it says it's 6 channel.
So TrueHD 5.1 played only silence on the Sonos ARC. It recognised the signal but no sound. Perhaps the bitrate was set too high? I know with E-AC3 Sonos ARC has a limit of 960k. I tried the E-AC3 version and it worked no problems.
Dunno.. Are you sure it supports TrueHD? The audio track I converted played fine on my pc using MPC-HC. Did your audio track work on your pc?
Cheers :D
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peacey
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:04 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by peacey » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:17 am

Is there currently any device that supports Dolby Vision MKV playback without the color bug of the Shield TV which gives a slightly greenish tint?

userr
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:10 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by userr » Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:14 am

RESET_9999 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:52 pm
glc650 wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:53 am
Do these players (x700, etc) play back these (single track, dual layer, profile 7) mkvs? And do they look the same as a retail DV BR (dual tracks & layers, m2ts)?
The x700 supports all the DV formats / profiles but only in a TS / M2TS / MP4 containers and yes, they look identical to the bluray disc.
I think i asked this before, but forgot the answer sorry.
There is no plexapp with x700 is it? If not, is there an alternative player that is "x700" upgrade?

RESET_9999
Posts: 268
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by RESET_9999 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:14 pm

userr wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:14 am

I think i asked this before, but forgot the answer sorry.
There is no plexapp with x700 is it? If not, is there an alternative player that is "x700" upgrade?
no plex but you can access the network via the DLNA server. it's not recommended though, thank's to the slow 100mbps ethernet port.
Please forgive my weak English.
Sony x700 ----> Denon AVR ----> LG OLED C8

Larrikin
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:56 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by Larrikin » Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:35 pm

MartyMcNuts wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 10:48 am
Larrikin wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:46 am
MartyMcNuts wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:34 am


Stream #0:0: Audio: truehd, 48000 Hz, 5.1, s16, 1536 kb/s

When I checked the file out in mediainfo, it says it's 6 channel.
So TrueHD 5.1 played only silence on the Sonos ARC. It recognised the signal but no sound. Perhaps the bitrate was set too high? I know with E-AC3 Sonos ARC has a limit of 960k. I tried the E-AC3 version and it worked no problems.
Dunno.. Are you sure it supports TrueHD? The audio track I converted played fine on my pc using MPC-HC. Did your audio track work on your pc?
Yeah, it definitely supports TrueHD. I often play content with TrueHD 7.1 and TrueHD 5.1 but someone else has encoded it. In fact, it supports up to TrueHD 7.1 which got me thinking. I should transfer DTS-X to TrueHD 7.1 and DTS-HD to TrueHD 5.1. Have you got a command for me to try that? Also, are there settings on the bitrate for True HD?

shawnc22
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by shawnc22 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:28 pm

Larrikin wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:35 pm
Yeah, it definitely supports TrueHD. I often play content with TrueHD 7.1 and TrueHD 5.1 but someone else has encoded it. In fact, it supports up to TrueHD 7.1 which got me thinking. I should transfer DTS-X to TrueHD 7.1 and DTS-HD to TrueHD 5.1. Have you got a command for me to try that? Also, are there settings on the bitrate for True HD?
DTS-X to TrueHD 7.1 is a not a possibility with any publicly available tools. AFAIK, the best you can do is ffmpeg's experimental truehd encoder that maxes out at 5.1. Even then, there will be fidelity loss at the end due to the experimental nature of the encoder.

Larrikin
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:56 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by Larrikin » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:38 pm

Fair enough.

I do know I can support True HD 5.1 (better than E-AC3). However, I tried to extract the True HD 5.1 from a DTS X, and when I tried to play it back I got silence on my Sonos ARC. I do know True HD 5.1 works as I have other titles where it definitely works. The sound profile on ones that work are:

Type: Audio
Name: TrueHD
Language: English
Codec: TrueHD
Channels: 6
Channel layout: 5.1(side)
Sample rate: 48000
Bits per sample: 24
MKV Flags: Default

The ffmpeg command I've been using (which results in failure in the sense no audio comes through on the Sonos ARC) is this (I wonder if there is something different in this command I can do to make it work based on the above info):

/Users/larrikin/Applications/ffmpeg -i /Volumes/ATP/Media/Movies4K/Apollo.13/Apollo.13.1995.mkv -vn -sn -c:a truehd -strict -2 -b:a 1536k -map 0:1 /Users/larrikin/Disposable.Data2/audio.thd

Note I add ac 6 before -map if I am converting greater than 5.1.

shawnc22
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by shawnc22 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:47 pm

Larrikin wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:38 pm
Fair enough.

I do know I can support True HD 5.1 (better than E-AC3). However, I tried to extract the True HD 5.1 from a DTS X, and when I tried to play it back I got silence on my Sonos ARC. I do know True HD 5.1 works as I have other titles where it definitely works. The sound profile on ones that work are:

Type: Audio
Name: TrueHD
Language: English
Codec: TrueHD
Channels: 6
Channel layout: 5.1(side)
Sample rate: 48000
Bits per sample: 24
MKV Flags: Default

The ffmpeg command I've been using (which results in failure in the sense no audio comes through on the Sonos ARC) is this (I wonder if there is something different in this command I can do to make it work based on the above info):

/Users/larrikin/Applications/ffmpeg -i /Volumes/ATP/Media/Movies4K/Apollo.13/Apollo.13.1995.mkv -vn -sn -c:a truehd -strict -2 -b:a 1536k -map 0:1 /Users/larrikin/Disposable.Data2/audio.thd

Note I add ac 6 before -map if I am converting greater than 5.1.
I don't want to sound too harsh, but honestly, it's a soundbar at the end of the day. The trouble you're going through with all the conversions is for something that you're probably not even going to hear a difference in. It's also an experimental feature at best, so ymmv. Stick with the eac3 and be happy with the picture :).

ApexAftermath
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:20 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by ApexAftermath » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:45 pm

shawnc22 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:47 pm
Larrikin wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:38 pm
Fair enough.

I do know I can support True HD 5.1 (better than E-AC3). However, I tried to extract the True HD 5.1 from a DTS X, and when I tried to play it back I got silence on my Sonos ARC. I do know True HD 5.1 works as I have other titles where it definitely works. The sound profile on ones that work are:

Type: Audio
Name: TrueHD
Language: English
Codec: TrueHD
Channels: 6
Channel layout: 5.1(side)
Sample rate: 48000
Bits per sample: 24
MKV Flags: Default

The ffmpeg command I've been using (which results in failure in the sense no audio comes through on the Sonos ARC) is this (I wonder if there is something different in this command I can do to make it work based on the above info):

/Users/larrikin/Applications/ffmpeg -i /Volumes/ATP/Media/Movies4K/Apollo.13/Apollo.13.1995.mkv -vn -sn -c:a truehd -strict -2 -b:a 1536k -map 0:1 /Users/larrikin/Disposable.Data2/audio.thd

Note I add ac 6 before -map if I am converting greater than 5.1.
I don't want to sound too harsh, but honestly, it's a soundbar at the end of the day. The trouble you're going through with all the conversions is for something that you're probably not even going to hear a difference in. It's also an experimental feature at best, so ymmv. Stick with the eac3 and be happy with the picture :).
Honestly would suggest they get an AVR that supports all the lossless formats instead of messing around with converting anything. If you're already spending what it costs to get a Sonos why not get a real AVR with speakers?

Larrikin
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:56 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by Larrikin » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:50 pm

ApexAftermath wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:45 pm

Honestly would suggest they get an AVR that supports all the lossless formats instead of messing around with converting anything. If you're already spending what it costs to get a Sonos why not get a real AVR with speakers?
I'm too invested in Sonos to go down any other path and cannot afford to switch. I am happy to look at E-AC3 but I don't know whether MakeMKV can't automatically transcode DTS to E-AC3 (it can with AC3).

Secondly if I use ffmpeg to transcode the audio, I'm not sure ffmpeg supports e-ac3 7.1. I think it only supports 5.1.

Then, lastly, my Sonos ARC only supports E-AC3 to 960k and AC3 at 640k. Makes me wonder whether I even bother with E-AC3 and just use MakeMKV's AC3 5.1 automatic conversion. The only argument against that is if I can find a way to transcode to e-ac3 7.1. Not sure if ffmpeg does that or whether MakeMKV can.

ApexAftermath
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:20 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by ApexAftermath » Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:59 pm

Larrikin wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:50 pm
ApexAftermath wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:45 pm

Honestly would suggest they get an AVR that supports all the lossless formats instead of messing around with converting anything. If you're already spending what it costs to get a Sonos why not get a real AVR with speakers?
I'm too invested in Sonos to go down any other path and cannot afford to switch. I am happy to look at E-AC3 but I don't know whether MakeMKV can't automatically transcode DTS to E-AC3 (it can with AC3).

Secondly if I use ffmpeg to transcode the audio, I'm not sure ffmpeg supports e-ac3 7.1. I think it only supports 5.1.

Then, lastly, my Sonos ARC only supports E-AC3 to 960k and AC3 at 640k. Makes me wonder whether I even bother with E-AC3 and just use MakeMKV's AC3 5.1 automatic conversion. The only argument against that is if I can find a way to transcode to e-ac3 7.1. Not sure if ffmpeg does that or whether MakeMKV can.
Fair enough. I think what the previous user replied with saying at the end of day its a soundbar and not to worry too much about it is probably right. Just stick with what works because you probably won't even hear the difference.

Also re-reading your post above, did you really mean to say you were trying to extract TrueHD from a DTS:X? That just confused me because the only thing you would be able to extract from DTS:X would be the DTS core track. If your Sonos can play non lossless DTS you could look into extracting just the core DTS track which I assume is possible?

Larrikin
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:56 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by Larrikin » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:04 pm

ApexAftermath wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 9:45 pm

Fair enough. I think what the previous user replied with saying at the end of day its a soundbar and not to worry too much about it is probably right. Just stick with what works because you probably won't even hear the difference.

Also re-reading your post above, did you really mean to say you were trying to extract TrueHD from a DTS:X? That just confused me because the only thing you would be able to extract from DTS:X would be the DTS core track. If your Sonos can play non lossless DTS you could look into extracting just the core DTS track which I assume is possible?

What I am thinking is if I can use TrueHD as my codec of choice (as the ARC supports TrueHD but I have yet to encode something that works with TrueHD 5.1 although I've played content that I didn't encode that is True HD 5.1 and it worked fine on my Sonos ARC. I have a feeling its to do with the bit rate that Sonos can support up to. Not sure. I know, for example, Sonos can only support up to 960k for e-ac3. It can't go the full stretch.

Now, as for DTX, I realise I can't convert it to TrueHD Atmos, but I am wondering whether I can convert it to TrueHD 7.1 (non ATMOS). Likewise for DTS-MA 7.1 to True HD 7.1. That's what I am looking at now.

shawnc22
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by shawnc22 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:29 pm

Larrikin wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:04 pm
Now, as for DTX, I realise I can't convert it to TrueHD Atmos, but I am wondering whether I can convert it to TrueHD 7.1 (non ATMOS). Likewise for DTS-MA 7.1 to True HD 7.1. That's what I am looking at now.
Like I said, you can't. The best you can do is the experimental ffmpeg truehd encoder which only supports up to 5.1. But seeing as how you've already tried downmixing and converting, I don't know if it's worth continuing to dig deeper into that hole. Another option you can try is to convert the DTS to FLAC. You'll keep the high fidelity but apparently the Sonos can only handle 2.1 FLAC (it's a soundbar, anything above 2.1 is fake anyways).

Larrikin
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:56 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by Larrikin » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:33 pm

shawnc22 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:29 pm
Larrikin wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:04 pm
Now, as for DTX, I realise I can't convert it to TrueHD Atmos, but I am wondering whether I can convert it to TrueHD 7.1 (non ATMOS). Likewise for DTS-MA 7.1 to True HD 7.1. That's what I am looking at now.
Like I said, you can't. The best you can do is the experimental ffmpeg truehd encoder which only supports up to 5.1. But seeing as how you've already tried downmixing and converting, I don't know if it's worth continuing to dig deeper into that hole. Another option you can try is to convert the DTS to FLAC. You'll keep the high fidelity but apparently the Sonos can only handle 2.1 FLAC (it's a soundbar, anything above 2.1 is fake anyways).
Ahh, OK. So here is my final question on the matter then. Do you think I would notice much of a difference between E-AC3 at 960k vs AC3 at 640k? That makes a big difference in terms of my work flow and time to convert. Massive. But if the sound quality difference is worth it, then I'd go the longer process.

shawnc22
Posts: 472
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by shawnc22 » Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:38 pm

Larrikin wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:33 pm
shawnc22 wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:29 pm
Larrikin wrote:
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:04 pm
Now, as for DTX, I realise I can't convert it to TrueHD Atmos, but I am wondering whether I can convert it to TrueHD 7.1 (non ATMOS). Likewise for DTS-MA 7.1 to True HD 7.1. That's what I am looking at now.
Like I said, you can't. The best you can do is the experimental ffmpeg truehd encoder which only supports up to 5.1. But seeing as how you've already tried downmixing and converting, I don't know if it's worth continuing to dig deeper into that hole. Another option you can try is to convert the DTS to FLAC. You'll keep the high fidelity but apparently the Sonos can only handle 2.1 FLAC (it's a soundbar, anything above 2.1 is fake anyways).
Ahh, OK. So here is my final question on the matter then. Do you think I would notice much of a difference between E-AC3 at 960k vs AC3 at 640k? That makes a big difference in terms of my work flow and time to convert. Massive. But if the sound quality difference is worth it, then I'd go the longer process.
Nah, just stick with the easiest method that will give you sound. which looks like AC3 in this case.

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