Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

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Manixx2020beyound
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:19 pm

Re: Re:

Post by Manixx2020beyound » Wed Dec 30, 2020 2:35 am

RESET_9999 wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:22 am
pete19 wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:02 am
you need to use p7 with FEL in order to see differences - because the "problem" occurs when the EL is merged with the BL, and in LLDV this is done by the player/source and it won't be as accurate as tv-led
p5 does not have EL
Ok,
but the Shield is not capable of displaying p7 properly (or any other format than p5), so that comparison between the Shield and the x700 cannot be done (well it wouldn't mean anything).
Also, are you saying that MEL would look identical in player-led and tv-led ?
U would have to do x700 fel LLDV vs x700 fel rgb dv8 to see if that’s true.

lexyz
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 5:32 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by lexyz » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:58 am

Regarding LLDV and Blu-Ray players
It seems all of them had identical Dolby SDK and provide same results

p7 FEL and p8 version show same artefacts and muted colors on LLDV X700+XF90
So FEL is not a cause. Could be metadata processing

Meanwhile Shield LLDV demonstrates noticable better picture - less artefacts, brighter colors.
Newer Dolby SDK?

Pictures https://slow.pics/c/SHnEtyql
Things to looks at - noise on the sky, muted colors of red flower and yellow beak

Also, if Dolby processing rely on closed SDK, which can be a black box for device manufacturer, it seems there is very little hope the "red push" will be ever fixed on Shield TV.
Bravia XF90, Shield TV Pro'19, UBP-X700

cipher
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:16 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by cipher » Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:23 am

shawnc22 wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:16 am
cipher wrote:
Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:06 am
Also, I found the following quotes on the nVidia forums:
The Shield supports both and will do TV-led if your TV supports it...
It does TV-led for me and I still get the slight red push.
Hi I didn’t think the Shield was doing TV-led with my C9 but it actually is, shame they can’t nail this on shield...
Therefore, assuming my LG B7 is capable of TV-led DV and the Shield can detect this and send the DV for the TV to process, is TV-led DV the result when using a Plex client that plays DV on the Shield? I'm currently switching between the native Plex client and the Kodi plex client on my Shield and want to make sure I'm aware of any differences here when playing DV mkv's.
Yes, it should be using TV-led DV on your B7
Thank you. For testing purposes, can one force a switch between TV-led and Player-led DV on the Shield?

shawnc22
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by shawnc22 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:11 am

cipher wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:23 am
Thank you. For testing purposes, can one force a switch between TV-led and Player-led DV on the Shield?
Only if you have a device to spoof edid like an hdfury.

pete19
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:37 pm

Re: Re:

Post by pete19 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:29 am

RESET_9999 wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:22 am
Also, are you saying that MEL would look identical in player-led and tv-led ?
no, not necessarily, but with FEL the differences will be more obvious when testing.

How easy it is to spot these differences also depends on the content.

userr
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:10 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by userr » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:43 pm

there is some speculation that profile 7 MKVs arent really played in DV with the 2019 shield, the TV gets a DV signal but what is shown is maybe HDR10 only, have there been comparisons made to debunk this speculation?

lexyz
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 5:32 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by lexyz » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:59 pm

userr
Shield plays p7 STDL (mkv or ts) BL and RPU (metadata). It is 100%
FEL is unclear. There is no test patterns to tell for sure.
Probaly new SM UHD Benchmark disk will have one. Will see in Q2'21

But after numerous viewings of "Shuttle scene" in Total Recall I tend to belive Shield just skip FEL and plays BL+RPU only. At least in LLDV mode.
This scene has extremely poorly encoded HDR10 layer and all film grain remains in FEL. So difference BL vs BL+FEL is noticeable.
Bravia XF90, Shield TV Pro'19, UBP-X700

RESET_9999
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:12 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by RESET_9999 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:05 pm

yep, I'm pretty sure the Shield is ignoring the FEL. Even Nvidia said it only supports MEL.

plus the colors are totally wrong and oversaturated with red spots everywhere. (MEl or FEl or RPU p8)
For UHD-BD rip, HDR10 is better than Dolby Vision on the Shield.
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/9580
Please forgive my English.
Sony x700 ----> Denon AVR ----> LG OLED C8
FIX the x700 DT-DL TS bug with this file

aboulfad
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:51 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by aboulfad » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:17 pm

RESET_9999 wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:05 pm
... For UHD-BD rip, HDR10 is better than Dolby Vision on the Shield.
https://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/9580
Interesting, I am reaching a similar conclusion for my unrelated limited trials with DV P5 (InfusePro) for ATV4K using yusesope’s mode 2 (which he warned to stay away from but no other choice for ATV4K).

I have ripped 2 DV UHD and tried to compare the ATV+ (iTunes) DV with the mode 2 and HDR10 of the same scenes. It is hard to do a fair comparison as switching between the various apps is slow and my LG TV doesn’t allow screenshots for DV vision.

In terms of my perceived subjective PQ (pic quality):
1- ATV+ iTunes DV - best
2- BD rip -> mkv which plays in HDR10 thru InfusePro - good
3- DV P5 (mode 2) - just ok
[Oppo UDP-203, ATV 4K] —> Anthem MRX-720 —> LG OLED65E7P

Roberespa
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:31 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by Roberespa » Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:12 pm

RESET_9999 wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:10 pm
Roberespa wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:08 pm

Updated program tsMuxeR 2020-12-29 Nightly (x64)
I have done it again as you indicated. I took the .mpls from disk 1 and disk 2 and created a m2ts.
Again there is desynchronization
of the audio with the video just when disc two would enter, as I mentioned.
I dont know. The 3 movies are perfectly in sync on my end. both the x700 and on my pc. what media player do you use ?
I did the extended version if that make a difference. Also, i did it a couple weeks ago, so not really the latest tsmuxer version.. Maybe a bug introduced in the latest version?

Code: Select all

Complete name                            : D:\The.Lord.of.the.Rings.1.The.Fellowship.of.the.Ring.2001.DV.ts
Format                                   : MPEG-TS
File size                                : 122 GiB
Duration                                 : 3 h 48 min
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 76.6 Mb/s
Maximum Overall bit rate                 : 35.5 Mb/s

Video #1
ID                                       : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format                               : SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID                                 : 36
Duration                                 : 3 h 48 min
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 4000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 602 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 184 cd/m2

Video #2
ID                                       : 4117 (0x1015)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@High
HDR format                               : Dolby Vision, Version 1.0, dvhe.07.06, EL+RPU, Blu-ray compatible / SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID                                 : 6
Duration                                 : 3 h 48 min
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 4000 cd/m2

Audio #1
ID                                       : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID                                  : 1 (0x1)
Format                                   : AC-3 MLP FBA 16-ch
Format/Info                              : Audio Coding 3 + Meridian Lossless Packing FBA with 16-channel presentation
Commercial name                          : Dolby TrueHD with Dolby Atmos
Muxing mode                              : Stream extension
Codec ID                                 : 131
Duration                                 : 3 h 48 min
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 448 kb/s
Maximum bit rate                         : 4 992 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 8 channels
Channel layout                           : L R C LFE Ls Rs Lb Rb
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 732 MiB (1%)
Language                                 : English
Service kind                             : Complete Main
Number of dynamic objects                : 11
Bed channel count                        : 1 channel
Bed channel configuration                : LFE
VLC media player
I tried with the Blu-ray version and the tsMuxeR got the same error.

MKVToolNix GUI
Assembles it without problems. But I need to do it with tsMuxer to get Dolby Vision in .m2ts

Roberespa
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:31 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by Roberespa » Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:15 pm

I don't know if maybe the problem lies in the 3-4 seconds that the film turns black
While going to what would be disc 2.

Vault
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:47 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by Vault » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:46 pm

shawnc22 wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:16 am
MastaG wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 9:12 am
So which players are capable of playing FEL remuxes from network sources (Plex/Emby/SMB), e.g. the full deal retaining the 12bit 4000nits final picture like when playing the original disc?
e.g. remuxed into a TS or MKV container so I can add a high def audio track?
From network? The oppo and that's it.
shawnc22 wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:03 pm
When you’re doing conversions from a UHD disc to single layer, you’re going to lose data (neglible in MEL). There is currently not a lossless way from converting from double to single layer where the info in the EL is reencoded into the BL; any info in the EL is just being discarded.
Hi Shawnc22,

Like MastaG I was hoping for a 1:1 experience paradise, when I read a few weeks ago that MKV + DV was live.
But I understand (thanks to you + contributors) that YTD it remains a lossy process, even using 1.15.4.

I had in mind to convert the ISOs I have : MakeMKV + playback via Shield Pro (those 2 purchases on hold for now).
But it seems that those ISOs, through Oppo or Clone, are still the way to go if we want 1:1 DV + HD audio tracks ?

Or am I getting something wrong here ? Any light appreciated.

PS : reading below Reset_9999, seems the Shield's ignoring FEL. So that wraps it up... 2020. What a nightmare :mrgreen:

shawnc22
Posts: 596
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by shawnc22 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:03 am

Vault wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:46 pm
Hi Shawnc22,

Like MastaG I was hoping for a 1:1 experience paradise, when I read a few weeks ago that MKV + DV was live.
But I understand (thanks to you + contributors) that YTD it remains a lossy process, even using 1.15.4.

I had in mind to convert the ISOs I have : MakeMKV + playback via Shield Pro (those 2 purchases on hold for now).
But it seems that those ISOs, through Oppo or Clone, are still the way to go if we want 1:1 DV + HD audio tracks ?

Or am I getting something wrong here ? Any light appreciated.

PS : reading below Reset_9999, seems the Shield's ignoring FEL. So that wraps it up... 2020. What a nightmare :mrgreen:
The conversion process used by makemkv 1.15.3+ is in itself a lossless conversion. The issue is that no current devices can play them (FEL titles) in their full capacity. The Oppo and its clones (iso/ts remux) or an x700 (ts remux) then are your only options for 1:1 playback.

lexyz
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 5:32 am

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by lexyz » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:25 am

But if you have a Sony Bravia TV with LLDV there is a dilemma :D :
- Play it on BR player or clone with artefacts and muted colors
- Play it on Shield TV Pro with richer but inaccurate colors (red push) and without EL
- Play it on any device as HDR10 version with proper colors.

I suggest Bravia owners like myself drop DV playback for UHD BR.
Bravias doesn't aggressively tonemap HDR and usually good in tracking PQ curve. So picture is quite close to creators intend for HDR version.

DV in streaming apps is a different story.
Bravia XF90, Shield TV Pro'19, UBP-X700

userr
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:10 pm

Re: Dolby Vision now possible through MP4 Mux.

Post by userr » Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:44 am

lexyz wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:25 am
But if you have a Sony Bravia TV with LLDV there is a dilemma :D :
- Play it on BR player or clone with artefacts and muted colors
- Play it on Shield TV Pro with richer but inaccurate colors (red push) and without EL
- Play it on any device as HDR10 version with proper colors.

I suggest Bravia owners like myself drop DV playback for UHD BR.
Bravias doesn't aggressively tonemap HDR and usually good in tracking PQ curve. So picture is quite close to creators intend for HDR version.

DV in streaming apps is a different story.
i dont understand what you mean with
- Play it on BR player or clone with artefacts and muted colors

even with bravia tv, playing a UHD with for example oppo in player-led, isnt the picture as good as for example LG (using player-led with oppo)

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