Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Discussion of advanced MakeMKV functionality, expert mode, conversion profiles
Taddeusz
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by Taddeusz » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:29 pm

I just became aware of the advanced selection rules. I already have a my preferred language selected but I would like it to select only forced subtitles. I don't need the full subtitles.

On a side note I'd like it to only rip the AC3 core for TrueHD and only the lossless DTS-MA (not the DTS core) for DTS. Weird, I know.

Taddeusz
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by Taddeusz » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:45 pm

I've added this to my default selection profile, would this do what I want?

Code: Select all

-sel:subtitle,+sel:forced

Woodstock
Posts: 6582
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:21 pm

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by Woodstock » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:23 pm

I know of only 1 title out there that this will work - Avatar. I own no other titles where there are subtitles that are FLAGGED as "forced".

The general rule is that forced subtitles will have their own track, and nothing will have the forced flag. As such, MakeMKV will not find any to save.

The only reliable way to determine which track is correct is to rip all of them, then check each one to see if it is just the forced subtitles, and use mkvmerge (from mkvtoolnix) or handbrake to make that the FIRST track in the file.
How to aid in finding the answer to your problem: https://www.makemkv.com/faq/item/8

Taddeusz
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by Taddeusz » Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:40 pm

Woodstock wrote:I know of only 1 title out there that this will work - Avatar. I own no other titles where there are subtitles that are FLAGGED as "forced".

The general rule is that forced subtitles will have their own track, and nothing will have the forced flag. As such, MakeMKV will not find any to save.

The only reliable way to determine which track is correct is to rip all of them, then check each one to see if it is just the forced subtitles, and use mkvmerge (from mkvtoolnix) or handbrake to make that the FIRST track in the file.
That's the point. I always select "forced only" on subtitle tracks because I never know if there are any. If there are any forced subtitles they will be ripped. If not MakeMKV will remove the empty track.

Chetwood
Posts: 783
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:16 am

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by Chetwood » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:59 am

Taddeusz wrote:If there are any forced subtitles they will be ripped.
As Woodstock explained above in the text you quoted they will NOT be ripped since virtually all forced subtitles aren't flagged as such which is why Makemkv CAN NOT recognize them.
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Grauhaar
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:46 pm

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by Grauhaar » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:35 am

There are three different subtitle contens possible in an track. Case 1 is often used for foreign subtitles, all subs in one track and the forced with flag set. The MakeMkv "Forced subtitle track" makes only sense for case 1, to extract the forced set subtitles form all others into an extra track. Case 2 makes no sense, but can be used, case 3 is used on many discs, but in this case the MakeMkv "Forced subtitle track" is empty.

So it makes sense to always select both options and figure it later with VLC out and remove or reorder the tracks with MkvToolNix.

Sample subtitle contens:

Case 1 - Subtitle Track (Mixed)
------------------------------
Subtitle 1
Subtitle 2
Subtitle 3 (with Forced Flag set)
Subtitle 4
Subtitle 5
Subtitle 6 (with Forced Flag set)
Subtitle 7
Subtitle 8 (with Forced Flag set)
Subtitle 9

After extract with MakeMkv:

Normal Subtitle Track contains all Subtitles (1-9)
Forced Subtitle Track contains only Subtitles (3,6,8)


Case 2 - Subtitle Track (only Forced Subtitles with Flag set) (Setting the flag makes no sense, but it is possible)
---------------------------------------------------------

Subtitle 3 (with Forced Flag set)
Subtitle 6 (with Forced Flag set)
Subtitle 8 (with Forced Flag set)

After extract with MakeMkv:

Normal Subtitle Track contains all Subtitles (3,6,8)
Forced Subtitle Track contains all Subtitles (3,6,8)

Case 3 - Subtitle Track (only Forced Subtitles but Flag is not set)
---------------------------------------------------------------

Subtitle 3 (without Forced Flag set)
Subtitle 6 (without Forced Flag set)
Subtitle 8 (without Forced Flag set)

After extract with MakeMkv:

Normal Subtitle Track contains all Subtitles (3,6,8)
Forced Subtitle Track contains no Subtitles (Track will be removed, because no subtitles with forced flag set found)
Good Luck :)
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mattyj2001
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:51 am

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by mattyj2001 » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:14 am

I, like the OP, only care about forced subtitles (on Blu-Ray discs), not the full tracks, so ripping the full subtitle tracks makes it more difficult to zero in on what I need.

I slightly modify the selection criteria posted earlier in this thread to explicitly select only the English forced tracks:

Code: Select all

-sel:subtitle,+sel:(forced&(eng))
If a title has no forced English subs, then no subtitle tracks will rip.

If you're lucky, you'll only get one track on films that need to display the forced track. If you get multiple tracks, you can:

Use MKVTools to rip the individual subtitle tracks.
Load each one into BDSub2Sub to view what the tracks really contain.

I have ripped around 200 Blurays and this has worked to find the actual forced subtitle 99% of the time.

Once you've identified the forced subtitle track you can/should do one of two things.

1. If you're like me and have a mess of storage and don't want to compress the video, use MKVToolNix to mark the subtitle track as forced, and either remove any other subtitle tracks or ensure none are marked as default. This will cause players such as Kodi, Plex and VLC to display the forced subtitle when appropriate.

or 2. If you're using a player that doesn't obey the forced subtitle flag (perhaps DLNA based systems), then you can use HandBrake or the simpler and aforementioned MKVTools to burn the subtitle into the re-encoded video.

The main edge cases I've come across are foreign movies that have a different default language, but I know what those are beforehand and just rip the full English subtitle and mark it as forced.

I've also come across one disc (UK release of one of the first Bourne movies, can't recall which one) that have no forced subtitles even though I know the film had/needed them. Turns out once in a while they decide to burn the English subtitles in for you at the get go. Very confusing but it happened!

Taddeusz
Posts: 46
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by Taddeusz » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:30 pm

I ended up changing my selection similarly to the following:

Code: Select all

-sel:(subtitle),+sel:(forced&favlang)
Since I'm an English speaker either would work. I just wanted to point out that you can replace the specific language with "favlang" so it will select based on MakeMKV's language setting.

DJ155
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:50 am

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by DJ155 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 2:58 pm

Which part of this is the subtitles part?
... Just need to make sure I have both regular & forced set, if the disc has forced aswell, should work, right?

This is what I have right now:

Code: Select all

-sel:all, +sel:(favlang), +sel:(forced&favlang),+sel:(lossless&(favlang)),+sel:(havelossless&(favlang)),=1:lossless,=2:lossy,-sel:mvcvideo, =100:all, -10:favlang
Cheers.
Last edited by DJ155 on Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Grauhaar
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:46 pm

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by Grauhaar » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:40 pm

Sets all tracks with "favlang" to on +sel:(favlang)

Sets only the forced track (more clearly, forced flagged subtitles in an subtitle track) with "favlang" to on: +sel:(forced&favlang) - This selection is not needed, because the +sel:(favlang) includes this.
Good Luck :)
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DJ155
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:50 am

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by DJ155 » Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:55 pm

So what I allready have set is good then?
... Assuming a bd disc has forced

Thanks.

audioguy
Posts: 28
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:28 pm

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by audioguy » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:02 pm

I'm still confused on the sub-title subject. What I want is for any movie where there is a foreign language spoken AND the movie contains an English sub title track, to display that track. I have been ONLY checking the box I indicate in the attached but not the one above it that says SubTitles PGS English. Is that the correct method or do I need to check both boxes.

Image

Grauhaar
Posts: 334
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:46 pm

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by Grauhaar » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:30 pm

audioguy wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:02 pm
The first box is for extract all subtitles (regardless of forced flag is on or off for an single subtitle) to this track. In case of an mixed subtitle track (included normal and forced flagged subtitles) both are saved in this track.
The second box (forced only) extracts ONLY the subtitles which have the forced flag set to on (single subtitle) to an extra track, this means that only all forced flagged subtitles are isolated/separated to an extra track and the non forced flagged subtitles are not included.

If you are still unsure, read the above sample in this thread to see what is included or not. Best is to check both boxes and check out with VLC what is in each tracks and remove/reorder the tracks with MVToolNIx.
Good Luck :)
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Useful MakeMKV links: FAQs - Debug Log - Buy
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dancjodanc
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:03 pm

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by dancjodanc » Sun May 12, 2019 5:32 pm

Is it possible once I have ripped a Blu ray movie..with the subtitle track. To have that subtitle encoded into the film automatically, without having to select a subtitle track? I have tired selecting just the forced subtitle tracks on movies...and I find that usually the second set of English tracks is the real forced english that I'm looking for. That plays when non-english is being spoken. But can that be 'burned' into the MKV so it just appears without me having to select the subtitle on my player? I have MKVtoolNix, but I seem to being something wrong..because I continue to have to select 'subtitle' to get it to play. The MKV already has the subtitles on it...I'm not importing subtitles..I just want to burn them in so it just plays with the movie.

Woodstock
Posts: 6582
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:21 pm

Re: Forced Subtitle Only Selection Rule

Post by Woodstock » Sun May 12, 2019 7:02 pm

"Burning in" requires something that will re-encode the video. Personal recommendation for that is handbrake.

I have MakeMKV rip all audio and subtitle tracks, then use VLC to choose the ones I want, then use handbrake to encode the file to make it smaller AND include the tracks I actually want. I can have handbrake burn in the "forced" subtitles, and ignore everything else.
How to aid in finding the answer to your problem: https://www.makemkv.com/faq/item/8

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