Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

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steffenmanden
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:49 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by steffenmanden » Sun May 24, 2020 11:30 pm

olevelo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:27 pm
steffenmanden wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:12 pm
You know the apk you got is for a way that wont be used ?

And if you read my posts you could also see that coding should continue, but instead in a closed group meanwhile - test apks can be thrown all over, i dont care about those :-)
So you would be in the exact same position, bit wouldnt have exposed the code to be used by others in the current not-standardized way.

But dont see the point in continuing the discussion! So lets leave it be! We can all agree that yusesope does good work.
I can use it NOW though. I already re-ripped half my DV collection with the current version of makemkv (I was already ripping some new ones anyway, so I started the process in hopes that it wouldn't change). Without using this, to watch any of those rips, I have to convert to TS first, and use double the storage. Who knows how long it will take 1. Matroska or whoever to decide on the standard. 2. Mike to implement it in MakeMKV so we have standard MKVs. 3. Players to implement playback support.

It's your whole "closed group" mentality that I have an issue with. If what you really mean is "create a group that anyone with interest can join to help develop and test the implementation, and not share the information in this thread where it may be mistaken as official", then ok. But I haven't seen any postings of "here's the group". I've just seen you talking about how you're going to do everything in private, which to me goes against the whole concept of open source software.

Again, we're all on the same side and want the same end result. But walling yourself off to a few people doesn't really do anyone any good.
1. Standard this next week most likely

2. Straight after the standard is in place

3. As you can see Yusesope is already working on a version to have ready the exact second Mike releases.

So you would have a new version in a week most likely - but you wont avoid having to rerip all your movies! Will happen no matter what

And we are just talking the code while the standard is not in place :-) this is a weeks time - people are reacting like they lost years

shawnc22
Posts: 502
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:40 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by shawnc22 » Sun May 24, 2020 11:40 pm

olevelo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:18 pm
shawnc22 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:59 pm
olevelo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:52 pm
Exactly. Too bad steffen has scared him and no one else gets to try this out.
Only the compiled version has been taken down to prevent it from leaking out of this forum and being misinterpreted as a finished product. If you have the means, which it seems like you do, all of the source code changes (minus the local browsing update) and instructions from yusecope are still available in the previous pages. Feel free to download them, make your changes, and compile for your own testing.
I assume you're talking about here? https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic ... 347#p90334

I'm not sure if the link was compiled or source, but whatever it is it's gone too. I might be able to figure out some of it from what was posted there though.
ah sorry that was what i meant. I had clicked on the link and assumed it was working since it loaded. i'm sure if you ask yusecope in private, though, he'll be happy to provide you with his file changes.
olevelo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:27 pm
It's your whole "closed group" mentality that I have an issue with. If what you really mean is "create a group that anyone with interest can join to help develop and test the implementation, and not share the information in this thread where it may be mistaken as official", then ok.

I'm pretty sure that's what's meant by the "closed group". As soon as yusecope is able to get it onto github, everyone who's capable of testing, helping, etc will be able to do so :)

steffenmanden
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:49 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by steffenmanden » Sun May 24, 2020 11:51 pm

shawnc22 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:40 pm
olevelo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:18 pm
shawnc22 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:59 pm

Only the compiled version has been taken down to prevent it from leaking out of this forum and being misinterpreted as a finished product. If you have the means, which it seems like you do, all of the source code changes (minus the local browsing update) and instructions from yusecope are still available in the previous pages. Feel free to download them, make your changes, and compile for your own testing.
I assume you're talking about here? https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic ... 347#p90334

I'm not sure if the link was compiled or source, but whatever it is it's gone too. I might be able to figure out some of it from what was posted there though.
ah sorry that was what i meant. I had clicked on the link and assumed it was working since it loaded. i'm sure if you ask yusecope in private, though, he'll be happy to provide you with his file changes.
olevelo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:27 pm
It's your whole "closed group" mentality that I have an issue with. If what you really mean is "create a group that anyone with interest can join to help develop and test the implementation, and not share the information in this thread where it may be mistaken as official", then ok.

I'm pretty sure that's what's meant by the "closed group". As soon as yusecope is able to get it onto github, everyone who's capable of testing, helping, etc will be able to do so :)
Exactly :-)
Open source also just means that code is publically available, not that you can see the code during development (besides already accepted additions and addition requests). It is also still controlled and monitored, so people cant just throw stuff in - someone has to approve it

Its just important that we play at a place where we dont cause issues :-) and this is minor stuff, but they want it currently to avoid wrong implementations! Its also because this thread is being linked at all sort of player support forums with "Dolby Vision in mkv works" titles and we dont want them to take the code in atm. because the standard is not locked! Even mike was unaware of the continuation of the standard, which is why he implemented DV in a way himself (they also bashed him for it, but being awesome made them skip it quickly)

In a week or two we might be happy with DV working and maybe a pull request for exoplayer in! - after that Plex can copy it at any time - we cant control that.



Rest assured that stuff is falling into place within the next week - and hopefully we got yusesope on github so its easier to contribute :-)

olevelo
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:59 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by olevelo » Sun May 24, 2020 11:59 pm

shawnc22 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:40 pm
olevelo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:18 pm
shawnc22 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:59 pm

Only the compiled version has been taken down to prevent it from leaking out of this forum and being misinterpreted as a finished product. If you have the means, which it seems like you do, all of the source code changes (minus the local browsing update) and instructions from yusecope are still available in the previous pages. Feel free to download them, make your changes, and compile for your own testing.
I assume you're talking about here? https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic ... 347#p90334

I'm not sure if the link was compiled or source, but whatever it is it's gone too. I might be able to figure out some of it from what was posted there though.
ah sorry that was what i meant. I had clicked on the link and assumed it was working since it loaded. i'm sure if you ask yusecope in private, though, he'll be happy to provide you with his file changes.
olevelo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:27 pm
It's your whole "closed group" mentality that I have an issue with. If what you really mean is "create a group that anyone with interest can join to help develop and test the implementation, and not share the information in this thread where it may be mistaken as official", then ok.

I'm pretty sure that's what's meant by the "closed group". As soon as yusecope is able to get it onto github, everyone who's capable of testing, helping, etc will be able to do so :)
Thanks for the confirmation. At least I know not to go digging further into the thread!

The way I read it was there was already some closed group because steff said he would provide his comments there. But maybe I misunderstood.

steffenmanden
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:49 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by steffenmanden » Mon May 25, 2020 12:02 am

olevelo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:59 pm
shawnc22 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:40 pm
olevelo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:18 pm


I assume you're talking about here? https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic ... 347#p90334

I'm not sure if the link was compiled or source, but whatever it is it's gone too. I might be able to figure out some of it from what was posted there though.
ah sorry that was what i meant. I had clicked on the link and assumed it was working since it loaded. i'm sure if you ask yusecope in private, though, he'll be happy to provide you with his file changes.
olevelo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:27 pm
It's your whole "closed group" mentality that I have an issue with. If what you really mean is "create a group that anyone with interest can join to help develop and test the implementation, and not share the information in this thread where it may be mistaken as official", then ok.

I'm pretty sure that's what's meant by the "closed group". As soon as yusecope is able to get it onto github, everyone who's capable of testing, helping, etc will be able to do so :)
Thanks for the confirmation. At least I know not to go digging further into the thread!

The way I read it was there was already some closed group because steff said he would provide his comments there. But maybe I misunderstood.
True, because i was referring to a private message i had with him for testing (for this next week while waiting for locked specifications) and even on code thats not usable. Wrote to those who had helped and would not keep others out who want to help!

We have been pushing yusesope to get on github, but stuff doesnt move as fast on that front :-P

olevelo
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:59 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by olevelo » Mon May 25, 2020 12:07 am

steffenmanden wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:51 pm
Even mike was unaware of the continuation of the standard, which is why he implemented DV in a way himself (they also bashed him for it, but being awesome made them skip it quickly)
From what I read (and I admit I may have missed stuff), either no work at all was being done on making a standard, or someone had requested it, but again, there was no movement. It was until Mike actually implemented something that it kicked them in the butt to actually do something. Either way, we've all been asking for this capability for at least 2 years, and there wasn't a peep from the Matroska Mafia until someone finally implemented something and it was brought to their attention.

And I saw those comments where he was bashed by them, and thought they were ridiculous too. Completely unwarranted.

steffenmanden
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:49 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by steffenmanden » Mon May 25, 2020 12:12 am

olevelo wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:07 am
steffenmanden wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:51 pm
Even mike was unaware of the continuation of the standard, which is why he implemented DV in a way himself (they also bashed him for it, but being awesome made them skip it quickly)
From what I read (and I admit I may have missed stuff), either no work at all was being done on making a standard, or someone had requested it, but again, there was no movement. It was until Mike actually implemented something that it kicked them in the butt to actually do something. Either way, we've all been asking for this capability for at least 2 years, and there wasn't a peep from the Matroska Mafia until someone finally implemented something and it was brought to their attention.

And I saw those comments where he was bashed by them, and thought they were ridiculous too. Completely unwarranted.
Not really... it was when i requested it that the discussion came up. I wrote to Mike to get him in, he wrote and voila here we are today :-)
Im sure Mike would have had written there prior had he known it existed.
Matroska is also open source, so there is a lot of regular people behind it.

The standard is being run by CELLAR today and Also have Mortiz from MKVToolnix in there reviewing as well as other talented people!

So its not because it took 2 years to figure out - the dolby vision details werent made public before december last year( current version in februar this year ) which is why we didnt know specifics before then.
Last edited by steffenmanden on Mon May 25, 2020 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

olevelo
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:59 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by olevelo » Mon May 25, 2020 12:18 am

steffenmanden wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:12 am
olevelo wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:07 am
steffenmanden wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:51 pm
Even mike was unaware of the continuation of the standard, which is why he implemented DV in a way himself (they also bashed him for it, but being awesome made them skip it quickly)
From what I read (and I admit I may have missed stuff), either no work at all was being done on making a standard, or someone had requested it, but again, there was no movement. It was until Mike actually implemented something that it kicked them in the butt to actually do something. Either way, we've all been asking for this capability for at least 2 years, and there wasn't a peep from the Matroska Mafia until someone finally implemented something and it was brought to their attention.

And I saw those comments where he was bashed by them, and thought they were ridiculous too. Completely unwarranted.
Not really... it was when i requested it that the discussion came up. I wrote to Mike to get him in, he wrote and voila here we are today :-)
Matroska is also open source, so there is a lot of regular people behind it.

The standard is being run by CELLAR today and Also have Mortiz from MKVToolnix in there reviewing as well as other talented people!

So its not because it took 2 years to figure out - the dolby vision details werent made public before december last year( current version in februar this year ) which is why we didnt know specific before then.
Right, but your request was made after, and referencing, Mike's change.

In any case, if the real breaking point was the public release of some DV details recently, then I suppose no movement could really be made.

None of that really changes my argument that there's no reason to do all of this behind closed doors. I don't buy your argument that some clandestine groups are just going to go implement all this and some how ruin it for everyone.

steffenmanden
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:49 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by steffenmanden » Mon May 25, 2020 12:25 am

olevelo wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:18 am
steffenmanden wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:12 am
olevelo wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:07 am


From what I read (and I admit I may have missed stuff), either no work at all was being done on making a standard, or someone had requested it, but again, there was no movement. It was until Mike actually implemented something that it kicked them in the butt to actually do something. Either way, we've all been asking for this capability for at least 2 years, and there wasn't a peep from the Matroska Mafia until someone finally implemented something and it was brought to their attention.

And I saw those comments where he was bashed by them, and thought they were ridiculous too. Completely unwarranted.
Not really... it was when i requested it that the discussion came up. I wrote to Mike to get him in, he wrote and voila here we are today :-)
Matroska is also open source, so there is a lot of regular people behind it.

The standard is being run by CELLAR today and Also have Mortiz from MKVToolnix in there reviewing as well as other talented people!

So its not because it took 2 years to figure out - the dolby vision details werent made public before december last year( current version in februar this year ) which is why we didnt know specific before then.
Right, but your request was made after, and referencing, Mike's change.

In any case, if the real breaking point was the public release of some DV details recently, then I suppose no movement could really be made.

None of that really changes my argument that there's no reason to do all of this behind closed doors. I don't buy your argument that some clandestine groups are just going to go implement all this and some how ruin it for everyone.
Ofc. Its because he added it :-) as a non mkv programmer i dont notice video news!

Mike did good work and so did yusesope! Right now its just making sure that the current code doesnt get used BECAUSE IT WORKS. Its that fact that makes it important! They just saw future issues that needed to be fixed, but since it works we have to make sure no one catches it and implements it too early.

It could be good marketing for small players you know, as you, me and others are craving it :lol:
If there is money to be made, people will fuck stuff up. This thread has already been shared with multiple player request forums with implementation requests, such as Infuse, Vero 4k and more. It only takes one to advertise that they implemented it to start a chain reaction by the rest.
After its in and used, its hard if not impossible to change - because it works and people wouldnt want to change the code and request their users to rerip entire collections

olevelo
Posts: 112
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:59 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by olevelo » Mon May 25, 2020 12:32 am

steffenmanden wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:25 am
Ofc. Its because he added it :-) as a non mkv programmer i dont notice video news!
My point was that they weren't doing anything until it was requested, and it was requested because Mike made progress.
steffenmanden wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:25 am
Mike did good work and so did yusesope! Right now its just making sure that the current code doesnt get used BECAUSE IT WORKS. Its that fact that makes it important! They just saw future issues that needed to be fixed, but since it works we have to make sure no one catches it and implements it too early.

It could be good marketing for small players you know, as you, me and others are craving it :lol:
If there is money to be made, people will fuck stuff up. This thread has already been shared with multiple player request forums with implementation requests, such as Infuse, Vero 4k and more. It only takes one to advertise that they implemented it to start a chain reaction by the rest.
After its in and used, its hard if not impossible to change - because it works and people wouldnt want to change the code and request their users to rerip entire collections
If this is your concern, then you should be asking Mike to take down the current version of MakeMKV, not yusecope for his tools. Because MakeMKV is the real enabler. All of these other players could already be making their implementations based on what Mike already implemented (and IMO, should be!).

steffenmanden
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:49 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by steffenmanden » Mon May 25, 2020 12:34 am

But lets leave it!

Stuff is on its way, so be happy about that :-)

The big miracle was from mike - the rest of it here is minor stuff, the code is not advanced at all if you had knowledge about mkv. Like Mike wrote to Exoplayer, it could be implemented within an hour.

So all of this is just all of is combined helping to speed up things - but we have to follow the standard and not brew on the "error" Mike also had from not knowing the standard existed.
Its happening now, so lets be happy and smile knowing we will enjoy Dolby Vision soon from our entire Collection!
Last edited by steffenmanden on Mon May 25, 2020 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

steffenmanden
Posts: 75
Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:49 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by steffenmanden » Mon May 25, 2020 12:38 am

olevelo wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:32 am
steffenmanden wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:25 am
Ofc. Its because he added it :-) as a non mkv programmer i dont notice video news!
My point was that they weren't doing anything until it was requested, and it was requested because Mike made progress.
steffenmanden wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:25 am
Mike did good work and so did yusesope! Right now its just making sure that the current code doesnt get used BECAUSE IT WORKS. Its that fact that makes it important! They just saw future issues that needed to be fixed, but since it works we have to make sure no one catches it and implements it too early.

It could be good marketing for small players you know, as you, me and others are craving it :lol:
If there is money to be made, people will fuck stuff up. This thread has already been shared with multiple player request forums with implementation requests, such as Infuse, Vero 4k and more. It only takes one to advertise that they implemented it to start a chain reaction by the rest.
After its in and used, its hard if not impossible to change - because it works and people wouldnt want to change the code and request their users to rerip entire collections
If this is your concern, then you should be asking Mike to take down the current version of MakeMKV, not yusecope for his tools. Because MakeMKV is the real enabler. All of these other players could already be making their implementations based on what Mike already implemented (and IMO, should be!).
They do have a lot going and with the new Dolby papers it was just a matter of who came first - thank god Mike was fast.

And in regards to makemkv.

That is exactly why Mike didnt add it to the changelogs and started this thread instead to talk about it.

Plus it had way more changes than just this.


It was all our additions, that brought the attention.

SamuriHL
Posts: 1737
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:32 pm

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by SamuriHL » Mon May 25, 2020 1:02 am

More progress has been made in the last 4 weeks than has been made in 2 years. We will all get to where we want to be. This is SUPER exciting. Patience is required. But there is a clear path to get where we want to go and that is absolutely exciting. I know everyone wants it NOW but patience will be rewarded with a very elegant solution that will take us forward. They are trying to create a standard for a reason. There's more at stake than just some SHIELD players here. A lot more.

tr000
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:03 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by tr000 » Mon May 25, 2020 2:01 am

RESET_9999 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 6:28 pm
tr000 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 4:33 pm
You missed one, a .ts generated with yuseope's tool in mode 1 plays in DV fine on my TCL Home Theatre DV TV. The only limitation being you can't fast forward or rewind.
I was talking about the tsmuxer method only. no other tool except tsmuxer is needed for the x700 and the oppo.
FYI, I remux the main m2ts straight to a DV ATMOS TS (with subs) in like 5 min. on my NVME drive. No messing around with yuseope's tool nor eac3to nor makemkv.
Ah, I see. Does that output Profile 7?

tr000
Posts: 64
Joined: Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:03 am

Re: Dolby Vision and 1.15.1

Post by tr000 » Mon May 25, 2020 2:31 am

Oh boy, this thread seems to be devolving into ad hominem rather than actual discussions about code quality and what's the most viable standard. Having standardized many a feature—probably with a wider user base than a relatively niche dynamic HDR format—there are, inevitably, workflows and code structures that are thrown away that a lot of people may have used previously. In my experience people can make just as good as an argument for things that don't end up getting used vs. the eventual standard. Not to say that standards are chosen for arbitrary reasons, but it's just a fact of programming and integration.

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